What is the 3rd gender that one can “transition” to?
Does one need to take drugs to impede their biological physiology to work properly if they want to “transition”?
If one stops taking hormonal drugs what will happen?
Any individual can have different traits:
a woman can be agressive, impatient with kids and mean
a man can be a good cook, can like to clean take care of kids and easy to scare
a woman can be good at fighting and assertive
a man can have mood swings
Nothing of what I said makes anyone less of a man or woman, they are EXACTLY what they were born with whatever masculine or feminine traits they have.
“what is the third gender” your deliberate misunderstanding and simplification of the issue is just bad faith debate. you’re proving us that fractions are “syndromes” by using only integers. this is just a display of ignorance and bigotry, it doesn’t really paint you as smart as you’re trying to appear
And some genetic mutationa in between
XXY - Klinfelter syndrome
XXXY - no idea how this is called
X -Turner syndrome
XX intersex
XY intersex
And true gonadal intersex
And still these are medical conditions, a man on drugs wearing a wig is still a man, and a woman on drugs to grow facial hair is still a woman.
Honey, nobody claims that trans women are biologically identical to cis women or the other way around. Sex is not gender.
And chromosomal deviations is exactly what the PhD in the OP is talking about. You can call them medical conditions if you like, but that doesn’t change the fact that there are XY women and XX cis men.
Ok here I can see my lack in logic. I understood that the PhD was saying that XX can change into XY during the life of the person, not that they are born XY and naturally develop female traits.
My only pet peeve with all this is “misgendering” which I honestly despise. If one is a grown up 180cm male I’m never gonna call him a “her” just because of a wig and makeup.
But if someone was raised as a woman because that’s how her body developed even if she has XY chromosomes I won’t call her “he”.
My only pet peeve with all this is “misgendering” which I honestly despise. If one is a grown up 180cm male I’m never gonna call him a “her” just because of a wig and makeup.
Interesting.
What if they were 165cm, had the face and body and voice of a woman and you had no idea they were trans? Would you call them He if you found out?
Would you call a big burly bearded guy She after you found out they are a trans man?
Yes I would, in both cases. But I guess it would depend, if we were friends I might call them the way they want. But that is a favor as a friend, not something that I would accept be demanded from me
So what you’re saying is that if you don’t know the particular person, you will actively go out of way to be an asshole to them, but if they’re someone you care about, then you’d pretend to respect trans people enough not to intentionally fuck with them.
congrats on your strawman, you’re really driving your point home
numbers can be proven mathematically
congrats on proving math with math
there is scientific proof that gender ideology is not “today i feel”, that sex and gender are distinct. you brought up multiple chromosomal conditions which are part of the scientific proof of such claim, but are too sold on high school biology to entertain complex concepts
if you want to bring “science” in this discussion, maybe read it first? it’s ok to be uninformed, you can be wrong on the internet
You haven’t read anything about this. It’s very clear. The first thing you learn is that sex and gender are different. Sex is biology. Gender is identity.
The second thing you learn is that sex is not binary. (And gender, being a social construct, certainly is not set in stone.) Genes may be XX, but maybe some other factor may be preventing that gene from expressing fully or even at all. This can lead to highly androgynous folks or folks with odd genital configurations. It takes genes, gene expression, and hormones for a human to express characteristics of some sex. Not all three of these are perfectly aligned. You can argue that genes control all of it, but that doesn’t stand. Genes can conflict, and environmental factors can affect things.
I learned all that and more in just twenty minutes of reading. Please, go do some homework. Start with “what is the difference between sex and gender,” then let the rabbit hole take you down. At least, that’s the path that helped me learn a bunch of this stuff.
And regarding Dunning-Kruger, the key point is confidence. That said, I’ll caveat all the above I’ve said with this is just stuff that I’ve read from sources that I trust, which I can corroborate with my existing knowledge of genetics and broader biology. I’m not an expert. I can be proven wrong. Most of this is definitions and quite simple stuff, so my confidence is high but still shakeable.
Normally, I’m a stickler about answering asked questions, but your questions seem to be based on a misunderstanding of definitions. Once you get that sorted out, we can try again and maybe learn something together
If you’re going to do a binary, X and Y chromosome doesn’t hold up due to the presence of functional XX males from an SRY gene. Its speculated most Y chromosomes started as X chromosomes in animals that have that dichotomy.
In fact a functional or non functional SRY gene is a better determinant for biological sex.
The fact is though that testerone and SRY receptors have relatively high variability and trying to socially stress people into a group of traits will create a feedback loop that is opposed to more natural courses of evolution.
Its likely trans people - of whom there are records of going back to time immemorial - are likely an evolutionary adaptation and serve some evolutionary function to society we may not yet understand
Since gender is socially constructed (male norms, female norms, male jobs, female jobs) the presence of trans people in society that not only understand both sets of roles but can navigate them is probably an advantage over societies where those roles are less fluid and more strict.
There’s a case to be made that the more strict gender roles become, the more evolutionary pressure there is to create trans people.
So “until time immemorial” means we have records up to the point we don’t any records. The suggestion is its a thing that probably predates the records
Since gender is socially constructed (male norms, female norms, male jobs, female jobs) the presence of trans people in society that not only understand both sets of roles but can navigate them is probably an advantage over societies where those roles are less fluid and more strict.
This might sound strange but I don’t believe in an set of norms in that sense. People can do whatever the fuck they like. Male jobs are male jobs because they require more muscle, female jobs might require more emotional IQ but I don’t see why you should be constrained to that
I’m a dude, I like doing laundry, and I like playing with kids, don’t like cars and don’t like football. Does that make me a woman?
They are saying its a choice to accept those social characteristics that are tied to gender. If people just let people express themselves how they wanted to regardless of gender, would people even want to transition in the first place?
I found the one with Dunning-Kruger! Do I win a prize???
Sure, pick one you like :D
Woo!!! I want the one with the ears!!!
Arguments mate, or you are just wasting our time.
Let me ask you this:
What is the 3rd gender that one can “transition” to? Does one need to take drugs to impede their biological physiology to work properly if they want to “transition”? If one stops taking hormonal drugs what will happen?
Any individual can have different traits:
Nothing of what I said makes anyone less of a man or woman, they are EXACTLY what they were born with whatever masculine or feminine traits they have.
“what is the third gender” your deliberate misunderstanding and simplification of the issue is just bad faith debate. you’re proving us that fractions are “syndromes” by using only integers. this is just a display of ignorance and bigotry, it doesn’t really paint you as smart as you’re trying to appear
So we agree that there are
XX - woman XY - man
And some genetic mutationa in between XXY - Klinfelter syndrome XXXY - no idea how this is called X -Turner syndrome XX intersex XY intersex And true gonadal intersex
And still these are medical conditions, a man on drugs wearing a wig is still a man, and a woman on drugs to grow facial hair is still a woman.
It’s a he and a she regardless
Honey, nobody claims that trans women are biologically identical to cis women or the other way around. Sex is not gender.
And chromosomal deviations is exactly what the PhD in the OP is talking about. You can call them medical conditions if you like, but that doesn’t change the fact that there are XY women and XX cis men.
Ok here I can see my lack in logic. I understood that the PhD was saying that XX can change into XY during the life of the person, not that they are born XY and naturally develop female traits.
My only pet peeve with all this is “misgendering” which I honestly despise. If one is a grown up 180cm male I’m never gonna call him a “her” just because of a wig and makeup.
But if someone was raised as a woman because that’s how her body developed even if she has XY chromosomes I won’t call her “he”.
Why do bigots always assume trans women can’t grow their own hair?
Is the assumption seriously that your average trans woman looks like a burly bearded man with a receding hairline?
Interesting.
What if they were 165cm, had the face and body and voice of a woman and you had no idea they were trans? Would you call them He if you found out?
Would you call a big burly bearded guy She after you found out they are a trans man?
If yes, why so? If no, why so?
Yes I would, in both cases. But I guess it would depend, if we were friends I might call them the way they want. But that is a favor as a friend, not something that I would accept be demanded from me
That’s unfortunate, why not be friendly to a stranger?
Why does someones chromosomal sex matter to you if you don’t want to have children with them?
So what you’re saying is that if you don’t know the particular person, you will actively go out of way to be an asshole to them, but if they’re someone you care about, then you’d pretend to respect trans people enough not to intentionally fuck with them.
Lovely.
so we agree that
1: one 2: two
and then there are just some numbers in between, 0.1, 0.2…
this is just a fact, you coming in these comments wielding words you don’t understand and concepts you barely grasps doesn’t make you smart or correct
you’re just a bigot regardless
Numbers that can be proven mathematically. The gender idiology is nothing more than:
“Today I feel…”
congrats on your strawman, you’re really driving your point home
congrats on proving math with math
there is scientific proof that gender ideology is not “today i feel”, that sex and gender are distinct. you brought up multiple chromosomal conditions which are part of the scientific proof of such claim, but are too sold on high school biology to entertain complex concepts
if you want to bring “science” in this discussion, maybe read it first? it’s ok to be uninformed, you can be wrong on the internet
So far you’ve only voiced your transphobic opinion, that’s not how a good dialog is started.
Arguing with you is a waste of time.
You haven’t read anything about this. It’s very clear. The first thing you learn is that sex and gender are different. Sex is biology. Gender is identity.
The second thing you learn is that sex is not binary. (And gender, being a social construct, certainly is not set in stone.) Genes may be XX, but maybe some other factor may be preventing that gene from expressing fully or even at all. This can lead to highly androgynous folks or folks with odd genital configurations. It takes genes, gene expression, and hormones for a human to express characteristics of some sex. Not all three of these are perfectly aligned. You can argue that genes control all of it, but that doesn’t stand. Genes can conflict, and environmental factors can affect things.
I learned all that and more in just twenty minutes of reading. Please, go do some homework. Start with “what is the difference between sex and gender,” then let the rabbit hole take you down. At least, that’s the path that helped me learn a bunch of this stuff.
And regarding Dunning-Kruger, the key point is confidence. That said, I’ll caveat all the above I’ve said with this is just stuff that I’ve read from sources that I trust, which I can corroborate with my existing knowledge of genetics and broader biology. I’m not an expert. I can be proven wrong. Most of this is definitions and quite simple stuff, so my confidence is high but still shakeable.
Normally, I’m a stickler about answering asked questions, but your questions seem to be based on a misunderstanding of definitions. Once you get that sorted out, we can try again and maybe learn something together
If you’re going to do a binary, X and Y chromosome doesn’t hold up due to the presence of functional XX males from an SRY gene. Its speculated most Y chromosomes started as X chromosomes in animals that have that dichotomy.
In fact a functional or non functional SRY gene is a better determinant for biological sex.
The fact is though that testerone and SRY receptors have relatively high variability and trying to socially stress people into a group of traits will create a feedback loop that is opposed to more natural courses of evolution.
Its likely trans people - of whom there are records of going back to time immemorial - are likely an evolutionary adaptation and serve some evolutionary function to society we may not yet understand
Since gender is socially constructed (male norms, female norms, male jobs, female jobs) the presence of trans people in society that not only understand both sets of roles but can navigate them is probably an advantage over societies where those roles are less fluid and more strict.
There’s a case to be made that the more strict gender roles become, the more evolutionary pressure there is to create trans people.
By definition “time immemorial” means we have no records.
So “until time immemorial” means we have records up to the point we don’t any records. The suggestion is its a thing that probably predates the records
This might sound strange but I don’t believe in an set of norms in that sense. People can do whatever the fuck they like. Male jobs are male jobs because they require more muscle, female jobs might require more emotional IQ but I don’t see why you should be constrained to that
I’m a dude, I like doing laundry, and I like playing with kids, don’t like cars and don’t like football. Does that make me a woman?
Just because you don’t think there should be social characteristics associated with gender doesn’t mean that there aren’t
They are saying its a choice to accept those social characteristics that are tied to gender. If people just let people express themselves how they wanted to regardless of gender, would people even want to transition in the first place?