- cross-posted to:
- [email protected]
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Beeper breaks e2e. Only use it with caution
Edit: I don’t want to discredit beeper, it’s just what it is. As long as you know what you do, e.g. no nudes, everything is fine - it’s still matrix.
Beeper bridges break E2EE. Encrypted Beeper <-> Matrix messages remain encrypted.
Does it though? Not seeing anything about it
@Display [email protected] is right, confirmed via their official FAQs: https://www.beeper.com/faq#how-does-beeper-connect-to-encrypted-chat-networks-like-imessage-signal-whatsapp
When sending and receiving Signal, iMessage and WhatsApp messages, Beeper’s web service acts as a relay. For example, if you send a message from Beeper to a friend on WhatsApp, the message is encrypted on your Beeper client, sent to the Beeper web service, which decrypts and re-encrypts the message with WhatsApp’s proprietary encryption protocol.
I don’t know how tech savy you are but I selfhost Matrix and almost exclusively use bridges to talk with friends. I feel comfortable breaking e2e on a system I control and the all-in-one-place messaging is pretty sweet, like Pidgin used to be.
If you are already comfortable self-hosting other services, Matrix doesn’t really impose any additional complexity IMO and the bridges I use seem to be very stable.
That’s an interesting idea. I self host a bunch of things, but I don’t think I’d wanna go through the trouble here. Maybe some day I might explore it.
Yes, you may read more here https://matrix.org/ecosystem/bridges/ or https://docs.mau.fi/bridges/general/end-to-bridge-encryption.html as an example. This has to happen first for e2e arewemlsyet.com/
Thanks!
I updated the comment with three links in total. The last link is the most important one I guess
I’m seeing one link and the start of a second
So can I use this to join my family’s group chat because they all have iphones and refuse to use anything but Imessage…
Yes, but they’ll have to add you to the group chat using your Apple ID instead of your primary phone number unless you use one of the “workarounds” to get your number attached to iMessage.
https://airmessage.org/help/guide/phone-number
The workarounds listed are for Airmessage but they apply to Beeper as well in terms of getting your phone number attached. I’ve been using method #1 successfully for about a month now.
Ah so not as useful as I was hoping but still pretty neat. Thanks for the information!
Yep.
The way they got iMessage to work is by hiring a Foss developer who did something pretty amazing:
They reverse engineered the iMessage protocol and emulated parts of macOS that are necessary when registering an iMessage account on a device!!
Man, I have been loving Beeper so far.
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No need for an always on Mac with Beeper. I was previously using Airmessage and then Bluebubbles in this manner on an old Mac Mini. Have been on Beeper for a couple of months now. They use their own Macs as servers.
They have a bunch of Macs acting like iMessage servers that you connect to.
Is Google’s RCS open? Last I heard, it was still limited to Google Messages, but it’s been a long time since I’ve paid attention.
Yeah good point actually… I’m still holding a little hope for RCS to finally be added to Textra someday so I can go back to that instead of Google Messages…
RCS has open spec, but implemanting it means dealing with phone networks and their policy. Also limiting operating systems like Android and iOS and a blocking factor.
No need to push it. Good old XMPP is better in every single way and exists since 1999. No tied to phone number, stable, proven, available on any device, with encrypted group calls and easy to host yourself.
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Alas, until they open it up more, it’s kinda useless for anyone that isn’t already using it
No, it’s very useful. They open-sourced the bridge, so you can easily add it to your own Matrix server: https://github.com/mautrix/gmessages/tree/main
What I mean is that there’s a “waiting list” to use the app.
Trad means that if you aren’t already using it, the new features aren’t useful yet.
I could probably have just said “anyone scrolling, be aware that there’s a wait to use the app” to be a bit more clear.
How do you mean? I’m actually kinda interested since I have friends on WhatsApp and Signal. Seems like it would make things more convenient by combining both messengers.
Is there a downside I’m missing?
Edit: they break E2E encryption for forwarding, so no dice :( https://www.beeper.com/faq#how-does-beeper-connect-to-encrypted-chat-networks-like-imessage-signal-whatsapp
There is that, but I meant that they are apparently weeks to months behind on their waiting list for new users. I’ve been on the list for a month now
I don’t see any downside, especially since it is mostly open source, so you can make your own server if you want. You’ll get Element and Synapse rather than Beeper’s fork, but it works well.
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I’m still waiting for apple to cut it off.
They have their own iMessage.
Their own imessage?
Anyone know what the beeper monetization model is? This is super cool, but I’m not sure how the company intends to monetize this, which always makes me a bit nervous
In the future there are going to be certain features behind a “Beeper Plus” paywall. https://blog.beeper.com/p/beeper-is-now-free
Thats super helpful, thanks for the link!
Looks like freemium: https://www.beeper.com/faq#how-much-does-beeper-cost-to-use
Very helpful, thank you for the link!
I avoid these multiple app messaging apps like the plague. Jack of all trades, master of none.
It’s pretty good and it gives me iMessage on Android. Super useful.
Does Beeper offer anything that Matrix bridges don’t?
Ease of use. Manually setting up bridges for every messaging conversation you’re in is a pain.
Is there a Matrix Bridge for RCS? RCS is neither SMS nor is it Google Chat.
Edit: this isn’t to claim Beeper is better. Just stating that technically there is something on offer that Matrix Bridges doesn’t support. I think I’d still prefer Matrix with Bridges over Beeper.
Edit: apparently Beeper is based on Matrix. Can’t confirm whether their own repo would introduce any dependencies for their bridge that isn’t in the main repo for Matrix. So it’s hard to say.
Yes. “Beeper adding support” is really them making a new Matrix bridge, and they open source all of their bridges, so just use theirs. It’s here: https://github.com/mautrix/gmessages/tree/main
So that does change things, but doesn’t necessarily confirm it would natively work with Matrix (though doesn’t discount it either). Is there confirmation that mautrix bridges are cross-compatible to matrix? Technically Beeper is built off of mautrix which is based on Matrix but isn’t necessarily the same as Matrix. I don’t know much about Beeper as I only learned of it today.
Maybe I’m wrong, but I thought that Matrix was a protocol, while mautrix was a client framework for the Matrix protocol written in Golang. Mautrix bridges are bridges for Matrix based on the mautrix framework. Beeper uses the Matrix protocol with some bridges (and maybe other components) based on mautrix; it’s basically a proprietary commercial fork of Synapse and Element with better-integrated bridges. I have several mautrix bridges on my Matrix server, and every mautrix bridge I see (including gmessages) says it’s for Matrix.
I’m using 8
mautixbridges on my Matrix server: GMessages, Instagram, Facebook, WhatsApp, Discord, iMessage, Telegram, and Signal.It works, I’ve been using the bridge linked for about a month no issues so far.
Beeper adds more polish, meaning that you don’t need to manually configure bridges or maintain the Synapse server. It also gives you better indications of what bridge a room is from than Element does. If you know how to set up a Matrix server, you probably don’t need it, but it’s nice to have the option.
isn’t that what Beeper uses?
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