Ryzen life.
Damn I just upgraded to socket AM5 too, great decision. It almost was Intel.
Man I just hate that you can’t disable the PSP spyware bullshit. It’s the only reason I don’t use them
What?I looked it up but don’t understand it.
Its a “trusted” execution environment for the system. So basically, it has access over your entire system and there’s no way to know what it is doing because it is proprietary and many people and third party security groups have expressed concerns about it before and asked them to open source the code that runs it and they will not do it.
Intel has a similar system the Intel Management Engine but you can disable that after bootup and also run it on open source bios so that it is essentially neutered. You cannot do that with AMD.
The NSA disables and removes Intel ME on their systems, so it seems like there’s a very real threat from these proprietary systems that have complete and entire control over every aspect of the machine and software running it.
So you called it spyware but now you say you dont know what it is doing. So which one is it?
The fact that you can’t discern what it is doing and it can’t be disabled makes it invasive software. There’s no shortage of qualified experts who agree with what I said and many others who point out glaring security vulnerabilities that come with using it. I linked a few for your convenience.
https://www.eteknix.com/nsa-may-backdoors-built-intel-amd-processors/
https://www.theregister.com/2018/01/06/amd_cpu_psp_flaw/
https://www.phoronix.com/news/AMD-PSP-Disable-Option
I’d say with all of the above at the very least its invasive software that has complete access to your system and all of its files and processes.
Spyware by definition is “Any malicious software that is designed to take partial or full control of a computer’s operation without the knowledge of its user.” The fact that you can’t look into what all it can do makes it capable of doing this.
Perhaps I’m being pedantic, but even in your quoted definition we don’t know that it’s spyware. Because 1) we don’t know if it takes full control 2) it’s there with our knowledge. I still can’t agree to your conclusion in your first comment that it is. It might be, but I’d phrase that differently.
blablabla more blabbering around the point below: just pure speculation of what it could possibly be worst case scenario.
Spyware by definition is “Any malicious software"
Cool, but since you have no idea whether or not its malicious calling it spyware is false.
Media definition of spyware for data privacy purposes is exactly that. The difference here is that this is a tool that can be leveraged to make a copy of all the data in your computer and put it on the cloud, among other things. Tik tok and Facebook can’t do that and are subject to much bigger scrutiny.
Same and also went with Radeon graphics this time. Very happy with my decision.
And people laughed at me for sticking with my MOS 6502. Who’s laughing now?
Did you write a TCP/IP stack and web browser in BASIC?
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Will still be working on the same problem a century from now.
I recently built a 12th Gen PC, expecting an upgrade to 13th Gen will be a cheap and significant upgrade path soon. Now there isn’t going to be any way to know if a second-hand CPU is damaged in this way.
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Anyone who knows of this and buys 15th gen over AMD is a fool imo. The risk is just so high and AMD has become so solid in the last decade.
Sure would be nice if you could disable the god damn PSP though. sigh companies just CAN NOT not spy on you. Its insane.
I would have gone AMD in the first place if this happened at the time of my purchase.
Oh well. Upgrade time is going to be a long way away. My last gaming PC served me well for almost 10 years before I did an in socket upgrade.
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Ebay is probably going to be flooded with damaged Intel CPUs.
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Used to be that a CPU was the safest used pc part to buy… not anymore :/
That’s why I went this route 🫤
Well at least it will be cheaper
If your CPU is crashing/unstable then yes, damage is already done, but for the few of us who bought these later just update your bios to the latest one, set intel defaults, do not overclock (I have even undervolted it a bit, but ymmv) and wait for the microcode update.
Though I do wonder if Intel isn’t just stalling for time, I do hope they are not. Didn’t wanna touch my build for next ~5 years.
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Rather get Ryzen and not deal with this.
There is also a corrosion issue. No software update will fix that. Intel purposely misled the media on that.
Real shit, can you sue them for this? I mean they aren’t stopping selling them even knowing they are faulty. Seriously, how can you get your money back from these vultures.
Vote with your wallet and don’t ever get anything from this piece of shit trash ass company again. What a joke. They aren’t even stopping selling them KNOWING there’s an issue. Wish I had money to sue the fuck out of them.
Any solutions for avoiding the damage if you happen to get a new one?
What, if anything, can customers do to slow or stop degradation ahead of the microcode update?
Intel recommends that users adhere to Intel Default Settings on their desktop processors, along with ensuring their BIOS is up to date. Once the microcode patch is released to Intel partners, we advise users check for the relevant BIOS updates.
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Completely agree, that was just a quote ripped straight from the article. From everything I’ve heard it seems like people are having problems just running stock settings. Your best bet to absolutely avoid any damage is probably to literally shut your system down until the patches are available.
There’s no 100% way until the new microcode is released next month. All affected CPUs are at risk of silicon degradation by the excessive voltage.
The are some power limits and July bios updates you can use that Intel says can help reduce the damage or prevent it entirely in some scenarios. I believe the damage is specifically caused by single threaded spikes, so reducing LLC and running something like prime95 in the background might hold the voltage low enough that it won’t happen. But there is no fix yet, so if your CPU is susceptible, running it will degrade the CPU, at least until the fix is out.
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Warranty.
What did they mess from 12th?
13th & 14th Gen were just higher voltage and clock speed and boost time limit versions of 12th Gen. It seems like they just over did it
Holy crap I barely escaped. I needed an upgrade years ago and settled on the i7-12700k. After I ride this chip out I’m switching to AMD.
I really hope customers get justice in this debacle. We need a lawsuit now.
Money grab because they didn’t have anything new to actually bring to the table this time.
13th and 14th gen are literally the exact same hardware as 12th gen, but with boosted clock speeds and power requirements. Basically, intel is struggling to develop new hardware, as they’re beginning to be limited by things like atom size and the speed of light across the width of the chip. So instead of developing new hardware, they just slapped new code onto the 12th gen chips and called them a new generation.
But they made the rookie mistake of not adequately dealing with heat dissipation (which is easy to make when overclocking,) and chips are burning out.
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It’s not about the CPU package getting too hot, it’s about a specific set of transistors getting too hot. I think I read they’re between the processing units and the cache. The size of these transistors combined is probably around a couple mm square. Unless you etch the package back you can’t measure them precisely. And if you etch that you can’t dissipate their temperature so you can rub CPU at maximum load.
So glad I spent like $2K on a computer with one of these in it that has custom firmware and BIOS on it. Guess I’m just fucked eh? Never buying Intel ever again.
I thought I read that Intel said this was from messing with voltages? I have had plenty of these processors in the last couple of years and never experienced crashes, but I don’t overclock
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Nah that was Intel trying to make excuses so it seemed like a competent company.
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Some motherboards can update the BIOS without a CPU installed. Look for a BIOS flash button on the motherboard.
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Best to throw that away. Good job keeping it from affecting the performance of your pc.
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Sell it as unused, I bet someone would pick it up
It really sucks that the only chips that support openbios and custom firmware is from such a shit company like this.
WHY will AMD and Nvidia not support it? I’m running out of options. Guess I’ll just stick with old ass computers from now on.
FUCK Intel.
