As much fun as Sync is (and while I appreciate creators want to get paid)…
We’re talking like $15-30(!). That’s steep for a phone app. All this money stuff is pushing me back to Connect and Jerboa.
I wish Sync well. But I think I’m done with it already.
Voyager is fantastic IMO. wefwef.app , it is a web app, it will even put am icon for itself on your phone so it feels just like a regular app. Works really great, and is really fast.
Voyager is also available at m.lemmy.world since I see you are using lemmy.world
Interesting, I had no idea, thanks!
What do you mean? Is there a distinction between lemmy.world and m.lemmy.world?
m.lemmy.world host a voyager instance preconfigured to load posts from lemmy.world.
It’s also available in the Android Play Store and will be on the iOS App Store soon.
While liftoff was the only third party I liked, I still think it was pretty unimpressive. It ran ok and that’s about it. Features were lacking, aesthetics are bad, some glitches. For me the $20 or whatever it is for sync is worth it. I’ve used reddit since 2012 and browsed exclusively on my phone, swapping between relay and sync. If you average that cost out, even considering the $5 or whatever it was to get rid of ads on Reddit, it’s basically nothing. The usage tracking is pretty shitty though.
EDIT: Ok I just saw the lifetime price for ultra, damn wtf lol. Again, averaging that cost over the ten years I’ve used the app means it’s still a good deal but fuck upfront that’s a lot lmao
It really should’ve been $50 for Lifetime, at most.
They are okay and did the job until Sync came out. But are no way near as polished as Sync, which has years of updates and development.
I’ll just wait, they are usable enough. If you want the Lemmy experience to improve, donate $5 or $20 for Lemmy (in-browser) UI development, which is still default for most devices and it very much sucks. (Part of it is lack of support for anything like cross-domain cookies in browser technology that would store what your home instance is so that you would be always redirected to browse from home but even without it there are problems.)
I like Sync so no thank you
Okay, I won’t push you from Sync. But if you have the money to remove its ads, please also consider supporting Lemmy directly or indirectly (Mozilla, among other things, funded the effort to find and patch TootRoot before it became a problem). If you don’t want to just donate, switching to Mozilla VPN will also help.
Yeah I’ve been using a lot of the available apps and while I had my favorites (Summit and Liftoff) there has always been little quirks that I’ve just been dealing with. The moment Sync hit my device it’s like I’m back to my reddit experience for the last decade. I’ll still keep an eye on the other apps, because I very much prefer and try to support open source developers. But I just can’t force a subpar experience on myself.
The Summit dev has been extremely responsive and has added in a few features I requested on a quick turnaround. They also happen to be out of town on a work trip this week so the timing probably sucks for them. And as I’m typing this I’m remembering that ones not even open source 🤦♂️.
It’s not open source, but it’s also not spyware or adware.
Summit.
Ditto. I used to be a big Sync fan and used it for years as my primary mobile client for Reddit until 8-10 months or so ago when the dev did a ‘fuck off and be unable to be contacted while something in the app breaks’ break, which led to a bunch of ads appearing despite paying for no ads (and according to people on the subreddit at the time it was not a one time occurrence lol). I switched that day to Boost and didn’t go back, but I was looking forward to trying out Sync for Lemmy when it released.
All the privacy and pricing concerns the last 24 hours have brought forth does not make me wanna even touch the app lol. I’m not paying that much money to fucking browse a glorified forum on my phone (specially when there’s many other options).
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🙄 it’s a small dev, who got shut out of the previous customer base they’d built up, and now has to rebuild with fewer customers (and fewer potential customers at least short term).
If your job lost 70% of its customers, I bet you’d be begging your boss to raise prices to avoid a 70% pay cut.
It’s not a money grab. It drives me crazy how much stuff people say is a “money grab”, “theft”, “a scam”, “predatory”, etc. Asking for money isn’t malicious, neither is asking for more money than you personally think is reasonable/makes sense for your finances, and neither is offering a freemium ad supported app (which is better than nothing if you’re not willing to pay with money).
Edit: and sorry if that sounds overly aggressive, but you definitely struck a nerve/peeve as of late. It just seems like everyone wants to be as dramatic as possible lately.
I see your point. And you don’t deserve to be down voted, as it’s reasonable.
I do think he’s pricing it a bit steep for what the market can bear. Maybe not. I hope he gets as much as possible. I just know that I am priced out and will continue to use Connect.
I’m sorry to hear that you’re priced out, and I think it’s fine to give pricing feedback like that. I just am sick of everything being “outrage” where someone “dares” to try to make some money in exchange for their effort.
I both wish you a better financial situation and that a shorter term compromise arrives where you can afford the app, or that you continue to be satisfied with Connect. One of the beauties of the fediverse is that it’s not an all or nothing thing, there are other clients and other ways to support folks and the community (even just being a friendly person, so props there).
If your job lost 70% of its customers, I bet you’d be begging your boss to raise prices to avoid a 70% pay cut.
doing so will result in losing the remaining 30%
That’s a farce; it happens all the time, revenue stops increasing from growing the customer base, so the prices are raised on the existing customer base to cover costs and keep things operational. Why do you think Netflix still isn’t $8.99, and password sharing is no longer permitted?
If you definitely know you can’t make enough money on 30% of 1,000,000 people, but you can make enough money charging 10% of 1,000,000 people a higher rate, you’re going to do that … because it’s your only option. There are diminishing returns to picking up new customers with lower prices.
Given how much time I spent on Sync with Reddit, I imagine the ultra one-time price ($99) will end up being a dollar per hour in a few months and just go down from there.
A dollar per hour for entertainment is generally a good deal to me.
I agree. While $20 could still be seen as reasonable - even though making it one of the more expensive apps, thigh I’m willing to go for it if Sync continues development -, the asking price of $100 for the lifetime ultra is insane. I’m not aware of any other app that is this expensive. Of course, you could argue there’s subscription apps out there that don’t even have a lifetime model - e.g. Adobe, Microsoft Office -, But these provide considerably more value as well and are huge corporations.
My feeling is - and I don’t have facts to prove it - that the developers of the large reddit apps (esp. Apollo) simply became used to the money making machine and want to squeeze as much as possible out of it.
While in the end it is entirely up to them, as there’s open source and free alternatives out there, I’m not too fond of this behavior.
I think that asking to be paid for your work is totally fine (albeit I myself made my lemmy app completely free and opensource, simply because its just my hobby project), but its a rather different story when you provide app for open source, nonprofit venture-free platform and start to inject ads and trackers into it. Its goes against the entire idea of free decentralised platform and makes it closer to profit-focused app like reddit/threads/etc imo
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To be fair, you paid once 7 years ago but the developer didn’t stop working on the app and didn’t make you pay for the upgrades they implemented if anything they have discovered the original price was too low for long term use.
I paid a similar price to that over a decade ago and don’t consider this price to be totally unreasonable given they are full time on this now and will need to keep updating the app as lemmy gets updated.
We also have so many alternatives that it isn’t an issue if people want to use something that is free. We are in the wild west of lemmy apps due to the Reddit fallout, things will quieten down eventually and a preferred few apps will come out on top.
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Posted from Connect for Reddit
I assume you mean lemmy, right?
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that’s us inflation maybe but LJ lives in the UK and I can tell you it’s a lot worse than that for us the bank of england says a certain inflation rate that isn’t that high like 30% over the last year but that’s a lie it feels like the cost of everything including food has at least tripled over the last year or two maybe more sync at its end was a fiver and hadn’t gone up in a few years so if you triple that you get 15 which yeah is below 20 by a quarter but S4R lasted 10 years before it died only cause of reddit I don’t think that’s a bad price to pay for a lifetime of adless sync sync is ljs job so it’s only natural the price is gonna go up with food going up this much 20 quid for 10 years or more of updates for an app I use constantly isn’t a bad deal
Please please please use punctuation.
People in the UK can’t afford punctuation anymore
I think they are using shitty speech-to-text software that does not do punctuation.
FTFY:
That’s US inflation, maybe – but LJ lives in the UK and I can tell you: it’s a lot worse than that for us. The Bank of England says a certain inflation rate that isn’t that high (like 30% over the last year) but that’s a lie. It feels like the cost of everything, including food, has at least tripled over the last year or two, maybe more. Sync at its end was £5 and hadn’t gone up in a few years, so if you triple that you get £15 – which, yeah, is below £20 by a quarter – but Sync4Reddit lasted 10 years before it died only ‘cause of Reddit. I don’t think that’s a bad price to pay for a lifetime of adless Sync. Sync is LJ’s job so it’s only natural the price is gonna go up with food going up this much. £20 for 10 years or more of updates for an app I use constantly isn’t a bad deal.
no
I think you’re using bad speech-to-text software. There are alternatives with good “AI” auto-punctuation based on your tone of speech.
no I’m writing by hand I just hate punctuation
You never read any punctuation-free text by anyone else, did you?
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The real reason is the development cost stay the same, but the pool of potential buyers is 100x less for Sync for Lemmy compared to Sync for Reddit. With only about 100,000 monthly active users on Lemmy, even if 1% of them bought the app at $20, the dev would only net about $14,000 (after 30% play store fee). The dev himself even said he’ll lower the price as the number of active Lemmy users grow.
I think a lot of the outrage is the people that used to use the app on Reddit but have been priced out by this strategy. It’s very disappointing and, if my time on Reddit has tought me anything, people are very quick to vent the frustrations by posting.
The healthy thing is to just find an option in the right price bracket, that’s how I found Voyager.
And that included a few features that are now ultra only like tagging users. (and maybe more, that was the one I used and noticed is missing from pro now)
Has nothing to do with inflation but economies of scale, his userbase here will be a fraction of the reddit one.
And this is exactly why I bought the app without thinking. I paid $1.99 for Reddit Sync in 2012 and have been using it since then. I consider buying the new app payment for all the value I’ve gotten out of the app and the developers work over the past 11 years.
Greed.
I signed up for a year of Ultra yesterday, more as a show of support. I’m already regretting it after seeing how many tiers of pricing are now being shoved out.
I get the dev has to eat, but this is completely going against everything Lemmy is supposed to be about, while costing significantly more than its Reddit counterpart.
While not necessary, it would have been nice if there was a small discount for Ultra subscribers of Sync for Reddit. I got just over 1 year of usage out of my ‘lifetime’ purchase. A gesture, even a small one, would have been nice.
I’ve just been soured over this whole thing, tbh.
I added the new price tiers based on user feedback on here after launching.
I appreciate that, but your pricing is still still disproportionately high, especially when compared to the number of fantastic free alternatives out there.
I love your app, and I’ve supported you as a Pro and Ultra member on Sync for Reddit as well, but I really think you should reconsider the current subscription pricing and lifetime purchases for Ultra options. As far as I’m aware, Sync is also one of the only major Lemmy apps that has introduced ads/pay to remove ads option. You’ve brought subscriptions and money into a platform that is now home to an exodus of users that hated how those things were slowly destroying Reddit. It just doesn’t sit right with me.
I’ve signed up for a year out of a show as support for you. The best thing you could do is show your long-term support for this platform by encouraging growth and fair options for users rather than creating multi-tiered pay walls with questionably high prices.
If lemmy is just for Foss crusaders it has no future
There’s a huge difference between wanting something for free and wanting something fairly priced.
I never said I wanted it for free. I’ve even paid for a year of Ultra to show some support towards the dev. But I still think the lifetime and regional pricing needs to be adjusted.
Well as far as I am aware, not much if any of the ad and pricing policies have changed from Sync for Reddit, so it does not make much sense to be all the sudden surprised that Sync for Lemmy continues to be ad-supported. Sync for Lemmy is basically just a faithful port of Sync for Reddit with as few changes as necessary, which AFAIK is exactly what everyone asked for.
ad and pricing policies have changed from Sync for Reddit
The ad-free version of Sync for Reddit (Pro) was around £2 to £5, depending on when you bought it.
There was also a fairly priced lifetime cost for Ultra (around £25). The pricing policy you’re referring to is vastly different from what’s on offer right now. I’m not sure how you’re managing to even compare them.
I put in for a yearly ultra subscription and I’d do it again. Not everybody here is a FOSS crusader or hanging around on /c/piracy. Some of us are just Reddit refugees that want our Sync back because it was awesome.
Hell, just add a built in pirate mode for these people that removes ads for free. I bet most of us would gladly pay anyway, and it will hopefully put an end to all the sobbing
Maybe you should consider further regional prices. Here in Argentina it is U$S 20. I really want to support the app, but it is quite steep given our conversion rate and average income…
I paid for ad removal, considering lifetime ultra but this price is very steep. I have no idea if Lemmy is even around a few years from now. Could you confirm or deny that this price for ultra is here to stay?
Also, would it be possible to get a discount on ultra lifetime later if you already bought ad removal?
It’s more like blackmail tbh. “Pay or i’ll track the shit out of you and sell the data to advertisers”. I can see why people are put off, and I am also. And what’s the guarantee if we pay that the data isn’t collected and sold anyway?
That’s totally reasonable from the point of view of a developer who has to earn something to live. I mean you still have the choice to not use it. The internet simply works through user tracking and advertising
I’ve seen a lot of websites do the same thing. Either allow cookies or pay
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How’s it tinfoil hat? It’s very clear how much tracking is going on if you don’t subscribe. None of this stuff is made up.
I think he meant your last part. You say there is a chance that LJ will collect and sell data, although you paid for premium. That’s a unnecessary accusation.
My last part was a question, not an accusation.
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Then don’t use it if that bothers you. It’s not blackmail lol
You can stop using that for free, you can continue using it for free with ads, you can subscribe and use it without ads, you can buy lifetime access and use it without ads
So many options
Plenty of options for people with plenty of money.
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Notice how it was a question? See this ‘?’
Why are you getting mad? The economy of scale is simply not there yet because there is only a handful of us lemmy users right now. With 100,000 active monthly users, even if 1% of them bought a subscription at $17/year, it’ll still going to net the dev ~$12,000 per year (after 30% google play fee) which is actually below US minimum wage. As lemmy got more and more users, I’m sure the dev would revise the pricing. If he were greedy he would just quit and work at some big corp instead of working full time on a lemmy client for peanuts.
This post lead to me to send 20 USD to the Jerboa/Lemmy devs.
Based
I hope the dev donates a fair share…
“Adding” ads to a FOSS service is pretty sinister especially if it only cost $3.99/year to remove them from the Sync for Reddit app.
Lemmy could use some white hat bug hunters to find security vulnerabilities before malicious actors do, like Mozilla helping patch Mastodon’s TootRoot.
Reddit had considerably more users when Sync was created- so smaller amount per person over larger user base would pay for the bill.
With Lemmy, user base isn’t there yet to create that same economies of scale - so to pay for the dev’s time - each person would need to pay a larger amount.
You can’t compare Reddit and Lemmy. They are different with a different model. Lemmy rely on donation. Reddit has ads and investors.
The dev of Sync did money with Reddit but Reddit had a source of revenue.
Lemmy relying on donation doesn’t have this source of revenue. This is why splitting the revenue of Sync between Lemmy’s devs, instances and Sync’s dev is fair.
If someone donate to the Lemmy’s devs and/or instances, this person allows the sync’s dev to make money on this donation. This isn’t fair.
The sync model with Lemmy is predatory at best and parasitic at least.
80% of the app is the same. It’s not like he spent years creating a new app from scratch. I’m not saying he doesn’t deserve compensation but I feel like he’s being a bit gougey in this situation.
I mean that’s literally how business works - amount needed to be profitable / number of customers = base price.
Reddit had millions of users, lower price per person.
Not to mention the literally free version!
@1ird @chargingtriceratops Regional pricing hasn’t been set up yet, but he plans to make a single time purchase option in the future, and set up Regional pricing
Here’s hoping it all shakes out in the end.
I’m pretty sure he had to rewrite all of the code related to network and the API, and that’s not little work. Thats weeks worth of work including testing
Use Liftoff
…or Thunder, which is very similar to Liftoff. I use them pretty much interchangeably. Both are built with Flutter, have similar UX and performance and they work on both Android and iOS.
I’ve tried thunder, and the UI looks really good, but for some reason when I try to scroll up on a feed the whole list starts shaking, almost as if the posts on the top of the list are changing size.
This happens for me too. I expect it to get fixed rather sooner than later.
Meanwhile I just got Summit for Lemmy and it has the slickest UI in my opinion. It takes linger to find features, though.
bit late but, liftoff doesn’t feel the same like sync, sync looks and feels like a native android app
So. Much. Better. I just don’t get the Sync mania.
Liftoff is buggy as hell and has terrible performance and UX, as does basically every other Lemmy client
And I don’t understand how people say the other apps are better, especially Voyager. I’ve used them all and they’re all a fraction of the quality of Sync.
Between the ads, pricing and tracking I’m just going to stick to Liftoff, it works really well.
There’s no ads in Lemmy.
There’s no ads, yet.
I feel like ads in lemmy would be a hard to implement thing, it would need to be done on the instance level… and people would just jump ship to another instance that didn’t have ads. it’s possible that it could post ads as posts that get federated but it sounds like an amazing way to potentially get your instance defederated in concern that it’s going to devolve to constant spam.
I mean, right now, yeah. But these instances use resources, which means they’re not free. Someone needs to cover the bill. I remember when YouTubers were put on blast when they started running ads and now it’s normal.
Or there might be instances that are specific paid and that’s known. Like an OnlyLemmy or something.
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The irony is, the price is going up instead of going down. How
isin the world he based his decision on pricing.deleted by creator
At some point of time , peopla got excited and paid in drove for Ultra. It signalled a good sign and that might fueled his decision to charge higher.
I nearly bought it, but the come to my senses of how pricy it is. I really like Sync, it’s the smoothest app out there. But, I’ll wait a bit long, and for Boost - to see how it compares in terms of features and pricing. I might be on a double exodus - first from Reddit and then from Sync.
BTW, I can’t reply to the other (kbin) user comment. Not sure if it is a bug. So I’ll paste it here.
You have a point. Anyway, by doing so he will only be targeting a very niche group of users of an already very niche market. The move will definitely help to satisfy the needs of this small number of users but I doubt it will help the expand Lemmy’s market. I expect, which I could definitely be wrong, Sync market share will become stagnant for the coming future. Other apps will learn from this fiasco and offers much more reasonable pricing models, which in turn will hurt Sync more… Just my 5 cent.
Yeah, i was ready to pay for one year ultra and then after 5 minute of use, i realized…wow, it’s barebone. It couldn’t even post! Not to mention not having 2 separate pinned icon, not having mod tools, not even able to view community, can’t see report, so on and on. If you’re an admin/mod, this mean you have to check with the browser ver for admin/mod stuff.
The price is this way because there’s a bunch of diehard fan blowing smoke up his arse in discord.
I mean, it is still in beta technically.
a VERY expensive beta lmao
I don’t have any skin in the game, as I don’t use the app nor any other, but the userbase for the Fediverse is like a hundred times smaller than Reddit at least. The same work on Reddit that could earn $200 is only going to earn $2 here.
I don’t know what the price should be, but it makes sense that it goes up.
Honestly I think we all need to relax. Lemmy is a niche app that’s rising, and it’s one guy. I paid for ultra since it was cheaper than the pay for no ads option.
$29AUD or whatever it was per year for ultra is literally paying a dev once a year for their work, and to keep it updated and build features.
The outrage is really ridiculous considering how quickly the app was built, how decent the experience is and the realities of the real world right now.
Pay the cash, you’re not going to remember it by the time you’re paid next. For the job you did, producing something. Like this guy did.
It’s been $33.99 AUD since it was released.
$37.99 NZD here
Typical for Australia though tbh, getting the shit end of the deal
Strictly speaking, everyone is getting the shit end of the deal. Reddit Sync was 4 quid, one off payment.
I got it for 15. Is it expensive for ad removal? Yes. Is it too expensive? No, for me personally no. I wanted to support the dev and I did it. Also It’s the only app I am going to use until Lemmy is no more.
You paid $15 for ad removal, when the dev himself is the one putting in the ads 💩 lemmy doesn’t have ads, sync does.
You played yourself.
I know Lemmy does not put ads duh.
That’s how ad removal for literally every app in existence works. The ads aren’t some kind of natural disaster that I’m paying the developer to “fight” lmao
The price is very reasonable if you realize the economy of scale is not there yet. There is only about 100,000 monthly active Lemmy users right now. Even if 1% of those users bought the app at $20, the dev only net ~$14,000 for working on his app full time. The calculus will surely different if Lemmy have 10x more active users which will allow the dev to lower the app pricing while still sustaining himself.
So you’re basically saying wait until the lemmy user base grows and see if the dev drops the price. That would lead to a lot of the OG buyers getting angry.
They shouldn’t get mad if what they say about gladly supporting the sync developer is true. I meant, isn’t it weird to get mad when something you bought actually got lower price a few years in the future? Like buying a game for $60 at launch and then some patient gamers bought them for $10 a few years later. Why angry at that?
WTF is this in CAD!?
According to Google that’s about 30.75CAD
The amounts are CAD. $134!?
That’s for life.
Oh, sorry, I misunderstood - i though that was USD and you were asking how much it would be in CAD. My bad.
So I just took a look because I paid 19cad for the remove ads option which was distinct from “sync ultra”.
I think part of what’s confusing is there was never previously a sync ultra lifetime price it was always just monthly or yearly. And sync pro was the lifetime price which was also out before ultra was a thing.
If you open the menu, above sync ultra is there a “remove ads” button with a more reasonable (lifetime/onetime) price?
Just to check, when it was 15, was that possibly the annual cost for Ultra? Whereas this is the lifetime cost for removing ads only.
no, it was the remove ads, there is a different menu for the ultra I think
Ah fair enough - yeah, bit odd that. Not sure why it would change so soon.
I can confirm the price with a bit of variation 21.99€ for me.
€18.99 here in Belgium. I would think it is adjusted now with local VAT percentages.
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