They can all fuck right off. Here’s the article if anyone’s interested: https://www.forbes.com/sites/benjaminlaker/2023/08/02/working-from-home-leads-to-decreased-productivity-research-reveals/
If only there was an objective way to measure the productivity of a commercial enterprise… like with money… oh wait, they have been making MORE money? With LESS productive workers? Curious
That’s obviously all due to the hard work and visionary leadership of upper management
Here is a link to the actual study (PDF via GDrive)
One of the authors of this paper is from the Chicago School and the Hoover Institution. Both are pro-business, anti-worker. They also don’t do any research of their own, but cite other papers that show the 5-20% reduction.
However, the methodology mentioned in the papers is suspect. First, they show that remote workers have the same productivity, but work longer hours. So the net output doesn’t go down, they just spend more time working. Which raises the question: How many more breaks were they taking throughout the day? Being remote means a much more flexible schedule, so it’s not uncommon to take longer breaks if you’re a salaried worker.
Another study was IT professionals shifting to remote work at one company at the start of the pandemic. This one showed an 18% reduction in productivity. But considering the timing of this and that company culture and procedures can contribute to this, it doesn’t seem to be a valid data point.
Then they bring up some common criticisms of WFH, which I’ve seen and refuted since I started working from home 2009: People can’t communicate, working in groups is harder, and people can’t control themselves. Yawn.
Honestly, the fact that they cherry picked hybrid work as being equally productive shows me this isn’t about productivity, it’s about keeping offices open. Which makes sense considering one of the authors is affiliated with groups that want to prop up the commercial rental business.
If the source of the article is suspect, where is the research by tech firms with a vested interest in cloud and communication platforms publishing counter studies?
Also, with both studies cited, the best argument is that workers are happy to work more than 8 hours a day. Does that mean you should expect workers to be on call for longer than an 8 hour day because they are working remote?
Science. Is not about winning. Fuckface.
You and people like you are literally inhibiting the progress of the human race for personal gain. Congratulations.
So there is no scientific evidence that remote work leads to more productivity?
Ignores salient points made, what-about-isms to reassert bad point, doubles down on the science is a competition thing while illustrating complete lack of knowledge of scientific process
At least you are consistent.
Ignores salient points made
I’ve responded to them, not ignored them.
what-about-isms to reassert bad point
I’ve said that, if you want to argue the studies presented, present other studies. The only one presented I had comments on and quoted the text.
doubles down on the science is a competition thing while illustrating complete lack of knowledge of scientific process
Science is about presenting data in a way that can be reviewed and verified. I’ve asked for studies that back up the assertions made while providing references to my assertions. Where is the data to back up the claim that remote work is more productive?
If the source of the article is suspect, where is the research by tech firms with a vested interest in cloud and communication platforms publishing counter studies?
Pick one. Otherwise you aren’t better than alt-right people on Facebook that say to “do your own research”.
Right, but you’re no better than alt-right people on Facebook ignoring the research that’s literally one click away because you’re afraid it will disagree with you
I’ve provided sources from reputable sources of journalism, you haven’t.
FYI, none of your posts in this thread have any links
And because jfc you’re lazy: Here is a study by the Harvard Business Review showing increased productivity.
It took three clicks from Google so I can see why you’d have trouble getting to it.
I’ve been posting the Economist link in several comments. I left it as presented to show where the link came from in case people argued with the source.
This source just states that there is a disagreement over whether work from home is more or less productive and provides survey information to show the difference in opinion.
That isn’t making the argument that remote work is productive, just that workers view it as more productive and the study isn’t conclusive. The closest this study gets to saying if productivity increases is “In theory, both sides could be right[.]”
Totally bullshit. When I’m in the office I’m constantly approached by coworkers wanting to chit chat. Sometimes even when I’m in a Teams meeting with headphones on.
I probably do the same if not more work at home as I did in the office, but only “work” about 2/3 of the time.
I don’t have a boss lecture me on blockchain for an hour because they were near my desk, I don’t need to listen to Carla’s story about her flat tyre, I don’t need to get constantly distracted when I’m deep in an analysis hole because someone on maternity leave has walked in with their new baby.
The time spent caught up in boring distractions is used to put on some washing, set the roomba going, or put a pot roast in the oven freeing up more time to just chill out later on and I still get everything done.
Never mind the 2 hours a day of commuting time I get back.
I was in the office 3 days this week. Got almost nothing done. Probably got more done half of today than the last 2 days
Meetings and distractions while in person
Same. We go into the office whenever the big bosses go in… so once every couple months. We get almost no work done on those days.
Let’s be honest, Forbes has been a trashhole for a while.
Listened to a podcast about this earlier in the week. The research test case was call center workers. Seems like bullshit to generalize like this for all work types. Also, let’s remember how high productivity was during the pandemic when everyone was working from home.
For me personally, my productivity is boosted. Without a commute I end up working an additional 2 hours a day. I have more time to focus and spend less time at lunch. In the office, my coworkers and the environment is distracting. I spend an hour at lunch with my coworkers.
Additionally, all meetings are now remote. Even in the office, people call in from their desks. There is no reason to be in the office.
The reason to be in the office is that the office real estate value is going to plummet if they can’t get people working in them again as demand will drop.
Yeah, I agree that this is the real reason why everyone is being forced back to the office and why Forbes is pushing this crap. A year ago the studies all showed that remote work was great for productivity or that there was no impact. Now that a few rich people looked at their commercial property investments and didn’t like what they saw, it’s a different story. The fact is though that a lot of that commercial real estate is a waste of space built around a car-centric existence. Workers prefer remote. We should convert all that real estate into housing. We have a housing shortage. Seems like a good idea.
100% agree. I wonder if they’d recoup their investment doing that or if housing is worth less than commercial real estate and that’s why they don’t want to do that?
It’s both decreasing productivity AND saving the economy!!!
https://fortune.com/2023/08/01/remote-work-preventing-economy-from-recession/
Such an incredible paradox 🤯
That’s a pay site
I swear, when I’m called into the office I get fuck all nothing done. Like once in a while there’s a reason for me to be on site, and I do that thing and nothing else all day.
Distractions, interruptions, noise, general discomfort. Seems every time I actually start making progress on something, a person stops by my desk and that basically erases whatever I did. So it always ends with “I’ll do it tomorrow when I’m at home”.
I dunno giving people more freedom tends to improve their productivity and they get more work done in less time than some micro manging wanker
When I come to office (one day per week), I come to have a great time with colleagues. No one forces me, I can work fully remote, it’s just nice to have colleagues around. We go for a vape, for a lunch, for a walk. Good times. Ohh, and also few meetings that day, since I live ~150km away from office lol.
I openly say in office that I can’t work from office. Basically socializing and that’s it. Productivity almost zero.
While on the other hand, working from home is where I shine. I can fully focus on my scripting/coding/automation stuff.
I’m okay with decreased productivity. I don’t own stock in the company.
You also most likely don’t get paid more for being more productive.
As some high level manager in Barclays said - analysts are like light bulbs. You remove one, and insert another one.
It all depends on the team’s and company’s values. If you are just a number to them (reddit moment lmao) - act like a number. 😅
good thing it reduces productivity! we produce too much shit anyway.
My work actually added a productivity tracking tool during the forced remote work during the pandemic and actually found there’s no reduction in productivity. My CEO decided to remodel our office to an event space to ensure there’s no way for us to go back to mandatory work from office.
This is the way.
Cries in real estate value
It’s funny how these kinds of articles always read exactly the same. I honestly want to know what offices they are using for these supposed metrics because it seems like people are doing everything they can to just endure and waste time while in actual offices.
They looked at the stats of two companies. That’s the extent of their “research”.
It’s a garbage article from the type of people that are responsible for 85% of what is wrong with the planet.
Look I work from home, I think everyone who can (and wants to) work from home should work from home most of the time. But people are definitely less productive working from home, and I think the people who say that most people are more productive are delusional.
There are more important things than just raw productivity numbers, western workers have been working far too hard and far too long for the last half century, and I think we should return to a more humane approach to working.
Also froma purely selfish capitalist perspective I don’t neccesarily think the productivity boost of being in person is worth all the costs of a bigger office, cleaning staff etc.
But how do you define “productive”?
I work from home and I get the same amount of work done. However if you define it as, “Doing X amount of work in Y amount of time,” then yeah I’m less productive because nowadays instead of getting that work done in an 8-hour shift I take about 10–12 hours to do it.
Same work, same day, so my productivity hasn’t changed. I just take longer to do it by taking breaks, going out to long lunches with friends, and my stress level is almost non-existent!
I find that to be a very equitable trade-off: Almost no job-related stress for a slightly longer working day.
There’s also to take into consideration the fact that people experience dips of productivity throughout the day. Like, I’d never be able to start something that requires most of my brain power after 3.
For others it’s early morning.
So, when I was in the office I would just kill time, go on coffee breaks or just do fucking nothing until it was time to go home, and I know for a fact that it was like that for most of my colleagues.
No one works 8 hours straight out of an 8 hours work day. Working from home just removes the torture of sticking around looking busy.
I actually complete from home the same amount of tasks I used to at the office, really, because my productivity (and that of others) wasn’t constant there either.
Not to mention that some jobs just have expected downtime. I’m a Sr Systems Engineer, and a very large part of what I get paid for is just knowing the system and being able to hop on and fix problems immediately.
If I didn’t stretch my work out to look like i was hitting 40h a week, I’d get bitched at by people who don’t realize that I’m largely an insurance policy.
But how do you define “productive”?
Studies that I’ve seen have seen both an increase in time to perform work and a decrease in quality of work.
You are noting that you take more time, but you work that additional time. Not everyone does that.
Increased employee happiness/retention and reduced office rent may be good reasons why to pick full remote over the increased productivity of the office, but the idea that people are more productive at home isn’t proving itself to be true.
But people are definitely less productive working from home, and I think the people who say that most people are more productive are delusional
Except pretty much every study done on this has said the exact opposite. I am much more productive when I’m home. My team is much more productive when working from home and hard data backs it up. I literally cannot think of one thing about the office that I miss or made me more productive.
I miss distracting coworkers with conversations instead of working! /s
What about the ice cold AC in the winter?
My ability to close a door and sit, focus, and develop in silence makes me not only more productive, but also happier. I’ve done some of the best work of my career over these past 3+ years. I used to wear headphones 50+ hours a week, now it’s only when i go for a walk every morning.
What studies?
The few people I know who are against remote working are the type of persons that don’t have any non-family social life outside workplace and are freeking out, because their coffee break chit-chats disappeared.
They still base their view on the idea that people are spineless and sooner or later start slacking off.
As a work from homer who gets twice as much done in half the time, I’m eyeballing your own delusion xD
And this isn’t a self assessment, it comes from my boss, who is fighting tooth and nail to keep us from having to go back into the office with numbers and spreadsheets proving it.
These decisions are top down and have very little to do with what’s actually happening on the front line.
All the studies show literally the opposite. Maybe you’re less productive, but that makes you the outlier.
Long term burnout also kills productivity.
And having to hire someone new and train them because the freedom they enjoyed is no longer available.
Just fire them and hire fresh people!
\s
That needs to be backed up by data and not just what people think. And reliable data needs scientific study, with proper time and people for the answer to be minimally reliable. Working from home is different from the office, we can establish that - all the rest are just thoughts or delusions from both sides.
Having said that, I agree 100% with the conclusion. We don’t need more productivity to make more money for profit only. We need investment for our personal lives too.
Because showering, eating, driving are productive vs get up and get started?
But people are definitely less productive working from home
How so? I personally think it’s a somewhat personal matter, but people who are less productive are home seem to be people who can’t focus in general. I am far more productive working from home, mostly because I don’t get distracted by others. I have colleagues who spend hours bantering only to then stay in the company until later to compensate for the banter - I’d rather get my work done so I can end my day on time and go home do the fun stuff. But I do have colleagues who say they get distracted easily when working at home and they’d rather work at the office.
Overall though, my company used to be very against working from home, but after the period of mandatory work from home, management admitted overall productivity had increased. They still insist people should come to the office every now and then to maintain the “friendly” environment the company is supposed to have, though, which is fair I guess.
My team was more productive at home, no open space telephoning, discussing, interruptions etc etc etc. no hours on a car or public transport, etc etc and it seems it’s the norm (or about the same productivity).
What are you smoking :-D
But people are definitely less productive working from home, and I think the people who say that most people are more productive are delusional.
Our productivity went up across the board according to my managers. We are letting our office go & finding a smaller space for our equipment.
Fuck Forbes!
