There has never, ever been anything approaching a protest that starts with the words “sitting out”.
In a sense you’re right, but it seems like a lot of people participating in this discussion may have a misunderstanding of the history of disagreements about electoralism on the revolutionary left.
Historically, some members of the left don’t want to waste time and resources participating in electoralism that could be spent doing other things that contribute to the revolution that will happen when the Bourgeois electoral system inevitably collapses.
Others want to participate to signal the point when that collapse has inevitably occurred because the corruption will have become blatantly obvious.
Personally, I don’t think just going in and voting counts as the kind of participation that theory is describing (that is, running in elections, participating in campaigns, etc.)
On the other hand, it has also become blatantly obvious to me, personally, at this point that on a national level my vote just doesn’t count. My vote is dictated by the capitalist class owned and controlled media telling everyone which states will vote which way. The puppet politicians aren’t vying for popular support, they’re vying for oligarch support and the media they control to sway that population. It’s voter manipulation on an unbelievable scale that sounds like a conspiracy theory, but I can’t ignore that it has become blatantly obvious to me that the system is rigged by the capitalist class, and participation in it (at higher levels) is pointless.
when the Bourgeois electoral system inevitably collapses.
What you guys don’t get is that when the electoral system eventually collapses it will be far too late, and any chance of your revolution ever happening will be long gone.
Just so I understand, you’d rather wait around until the complete collapse of society rather than take five minutes to go vote, is that right? Because what, a democrat might accidently get elected and give you healthcare, but he might get some money from a corporation or something to do it so fuck that, right?
You understand that if things ever got bad enough for the system to collapse it would not be a communist paradise that arises from the ashes, right?
I seriously don’t understand you people. This is like chopping your whole hand off because your fingernails need trimming.
Edit: also, it has already collapsed. That should have been evident in the 2016 primaries.
You don’t actually own anything of value, like a house or a car, I take it.
Just so I understand, you’d rather wait around until the complete collapse of society rather than take five minutes to go vote, is that right?
Given this response, I’m guessing you read less than a paragraph in to my original response and decided you needed to wield your superior intellect and values and produce a “gotcha” response while not actually understanding what you were reading.
You don’t actually own anything of value, like a house or a car, I take it.
I own a relatively large house and multiple cars. I have a wife and a dog and a daughter and a granddaughter. I have lots of completely unnecessary consumer goods. Likely I’m more well off than you. Just because I can play and succeed in the capitalist game doesn’t mean I don’t recognize it for the oppressive system that it is and sympathize with the people that didn’t get as lucky as me.
You so badly want to pounce you have to build a straw man to dislike instead of trying to understand a perspective different from your own. You are a petty person.
Given this response, I’m guessing you read less than a paragraph in to my original response and decided you needed to wield your superior intellect and values and produce a “gotcha” response while not actually understanding what you were reading.
Couldn’t think of a witty comeback, huh?
I own a relatively large house and multiple cars. I have a wife and a dog and a daughter and a granddaughter.
You obviously don’t seem to care about the kind of country they grow up in, since you’re too lazy to do the absolute minimum required to prevent them from growing up in a fascist hellhole.
You so badly want to pounce you have to build a straw man to dislike instead of trying to understand a perspective different from your own. You are a petty person.
All I’m saying is that fascism is here, which side are you on? Because if you’re just going to sit this one out, then you’re on the side of the fascists.
I read it. I just don’t buy your bullshit excuse for not voting. That’s dumb. That’s like the kind of thing I would’ve said when I was an edgy thirteen year old.
Fuck you, you absolute piece of shit.
Hey, you’re the one who won’t get up off his lazy ass to go vote, not me. See what you’re not getting is that voting is not about you “Supporting a corrupt system.” It’s about you protecting the people you love. You have told me that you don’t give a shit enough to bother voting, so I must therefore come to the conclusion that there’s nothing and nobody you love.
It tells me you don’t care about justice, or the rule of law, or the economics of the downtrodden, or about giving people healthcare, or preserving the planet so they don’t live in a polluted shithole. These are all things that have a direct effect on your life, and the life of your wife, daughter, and grandchild -and by your inaction you’re complicit in allowing fascists to take power and create the policies governing these things. Like I said, who’s side are you on? Apparently you’re not even on your own family’s side.
You are an incurious, illiterate, spiteful, petty person who shouldn’t be engaging with others.
Hey I’m not sorry you got offended. Sounds like this is the first time anyone’s ever bother to tell you the truth about yourself.
The great thing about this country is that nobody forces you to do anything. Feel free to sit everything out if that satisfies whatever stupid corrupt moral requirements you’ve created for yourself. Just don’t try to pretend that you actually care about your country, your family, or anyone else if you can’t even bother to show up every four years to do the absolute minimum required to keep this country free.
In a sense you’re right, but it seems like a lot of people participating in this discussion may have a misunderstanding of the history of disagreements about electoralism on the revolutionary left.
Historically, some members of the left don’t want to waste time and resources participating in electoralism that could be spent doing other things that contribute to the revolution that will happen when the Bourgeois electoral system inevitably collapses.
Others want to participate to signal the point when that collapse has inevitably occurred because the corruption will have become blatantly obvious.
Personally, I don’t think just going in and voting counts as the kind of participation that theory is describing (that is, running in elections, participating in campaigns, etc.)
On the other hand, it has also become blatantly obvious to me, personally, at this point that on a national level my vote just doesn’t count. My vote is dictated by the capitalist class owned and controlled media telling everyone which states will vote which way. The puppet politicians aren’t vying for popular support, they’re vying for oligarch support and the media they control to sway that population. It’s voter manipulation on an unbelievable scale that sounds like a conspiracy theory, but I can’t ignore that it has become blatantly obvious to me that the system is rigged by the capitalist class, and participation in it (at higher levels) is pointless.
What you guys don’t get is that when the electoral system eventually collapses it will be far too late, and any chance of your revolution ever happening will be long gone.
What do you think a revolution is if not a collapse of the previous system?
Edit: also, it has already collapsed. That should have been evident in the 2016 primaries.
Just so I understand, you’d rather wait around until the complete collapse of society rather than take five minutes to go vote, is that right? Because what, a democrat might accidently get elected and give you healthcare, but he might get some money from a corporation or something to do it so fuck that, right?
You understand that if things ever got bad enough for the system to collapse it would not be a communist paradise that arises from the ashes, right?
I seriously don’t understand you people. This is like chopping your whole hand off because your fingernails need trimming.
You don’t actually own anything of value, like a house or a car, I take it.
Given this response, I’m guessing you read less than a paragraph in to my original response and decided you needed to wield your superior intellect and values and produce a “gotcha” response while not actually understanding what you were reading.
I own a relatively large house and multiple cars. I have a wife and a dog and a daughter and a granddaughter. I have lots of completely unnecessary consumer goods. Likely I’m more well off than you. Just because I can play and succeed in the capitalist game doesn’t mean I don’t recognize it for the oppressive system that it is and sympathize with the people that didn’t get as lucky as me.
You so badly want to pounce you have to build a straw man to dislike instead of trying to understand a perspective different from your own. You are a petty person.
Couldn’t think of a witty comeback, huh?
You obviously don’t seem to care about the kind of country they grow up in, since you’re too lazy to do the absolute minimum required to prevent them from growing up in a fascist hellhole.
All I’m saying is that fascism is here, which side are you on? Because if you’re just going to sit this one out, then you’re on the side of the fascists.
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I read it. I just don’t buy your bullshit excuse for not voting. That’s dumb. That’s like the kind of thing I would’ve said when I was an edgy thirteen year old.
Hey, you’re the one who won’t get up off his lazy ass to go vote, not me. See what you’re not getting is that voting is not about you “Supporting a corrupt system.” It’s about you protecting the people you love. You have told me that you don’t give a shit enough to bother voting, so I must therefore come to the conclusion that there’s nothing and nobody you love.
It tells me you don’t care about justice, or the rule of law, or the economics of the downtrodden, or about giving people healthcare, or preserving the planet so they don’t live in a polluted shithole. These are all things that have a direct effect on your life, and the life of your wife, daughter, and grandchild -and by your inaction you’re complicit in allowing fascists to take power and create the policies governing these things. Like I said, who’s side are you on? Apparently you’re not even on your own family’s side.
Hey I’m not sorry you got offended. Sounds like this is the first time anyone’s ever bother to tell you the truth about yourself.
The great thing about this country is that nobody forces you to do anything. Feel free to sit everything out if that satisfies whatever stupid corrupt moral requirements you’ve created for yourself. Just don’t try to pretend that you actually care about your country, your family, or anyone else if you can’t even bother to show up every four years to do the absolute minimum required to keep this country free.
Removed by mod