Kind of jumping into the middle of yours and his here, but quite frankly the ghosts of our past are ALWAYS relevant and pretending things should be changed or answered for in the bubble of “here and now” does no good when anticipating the effects down the line. Torture has been shown to be ineffective and counterproductive. Many voters opposed Citizens United, yet it was passed under Obama. Many citizens opposed the Patriot Act, citing it’s opportunity to be misused to indefinitely hold people. And sure enough Bush signed it and we are still dealing with the repurcussions.
Both Obama AND Biden ran on the platform to close Guantanamo so it could not be misused, and did not. Could Trump have reopened it? Sure! But then we’d be faulting him for reopening it AND using it as a camp. It’s not “both sides nonsense” to say that if Obama had succeeded in it before he left office, we wouldn’t be in this position. (The earliest I could find with quick Google) He stated as early as 2009 in a press release he aimed to do so, and had 7 years after that to get the votes together, ultimately handing it off to Trump in 2016 with 0 inmates because he failed to get a vote to approve it. Trump didn’t close it for obvious reasons, and then Biden had 4 years to take his crack at it and also failed to close it. And now, here we sit almost 20 years later with bushes prison island still open, being used for the same evil bush used it for - hiding people from the press so those nasty headlines stop because they can’t access the island.
Their platform was not, “I will close gitmo”. Maybe somewhere in the parties platform it was in there but that is not what they ran on and quit trying to rewrite history.
I’m not going to sit here and argue semantics with bad actors trying to obfuscate Americas plunge into fascism. I just want you all to know, you guys are disgusting.
It’s not semantics it’s literally cause and effect. In the initial post YOU replied to, they simply stated that if preventative maintenance had been done we would not be having to ask “what reaction is appropriate” so soon. I know YOU’RE looking for answers to the OP, but then you replied to someone simply bemoaning that we could have been better.
Obviously, at this stage no one is really sure what to do. Is the US really sliding into New Nazi Germany? To what degree? What is a proportionate response to any level? Should anyone actually do anything or will the government sort itself out? Remember, 49% of the voting base DID vote for him, as much as you or I disagree with them. To use violence against someone who is, at this stage, still a democratically elected leader, would be fair game to put anyone in prison. That’s the catch-22 of the issue - he’s still fairly elected, but as soon as the declaration of the formation of the first Galactic Empire, you’re already too late.
If someone DID react, what do you do? Peacefully- Strike at work? Block road/railways? Stand in the doorway of trump-aligned businesses? Or escalate into violence- Burn buildings? Which ones? Even further - Does every city devolve into street warfare like Mogadishu in 1993?
Cause and effect. What happens if you do the peaceful things? The violent ones? Will people follow your peaceful resistance and risk their jobs for your cause? Will people follow your violent warpath, and risk their lives for your cause? What happens to them if they do either, or do nothing and ignore you? These are the questions you ask not “well why is everyone bitching about black man sucks”. - not because powerful funny black man sucks, but because his inaction has us asking all the questions above so much sooner than anyone would have liked.
Kind of jumping into the middle of yours and his here, but quite frankly the ghosts of our past are ALWAYS relevant and pretending things should be changed or answered for in the bubble of “here and now” does no good when anticipating the effects down the line. Torture has been shown to be ineffective and counterproductive. Many voters opposed Citizens United, yet it was passed under Obama. Many citizens opposed the Patriot Act, citing it’s opportunity to be misused to indefinitely hold people. And sure enough Bush signed it and we are still dealing with the repurcussions.
Both Obama AND Biden ran on the platform to close Guantanamo so it could not be misused, and did not. Could Trump have reopened it? Sure! But then we’d be faulting him for reopening it AND using it as a camp. It’s not “both sides nonsense” to say that if Obama had succeeded in it before he left office, we wouldn’t be in this position. (The earliest I could find with quick Google) He stated as early as 2009 in a press release he aimed to do so, and had 7 years after that to get the votes together, ultimately handing it off to Trump in 2016 with 0 inmates because he failed to get a vote to approve it. Trump didn’t close it for obvious reasons, and then Biden had 4 years to take his crack at it and also failed to close it. And now, here we sit almost 20 years later with bushes prison island still open, being used for the same evil bush used it for - hiding people from the press so those nasty headlines stop because they can’t access the island.
Their platform was not, “I will close gitmo”. Maybe somewhere in the parties platform it was in there but that is not what they ran on and quit trying to rewrite history.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/feb/24/obama-guantanamo-bay-closure-republicans
It was definitely something he ran on, and Obama even signed an executive order to do it.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executive_Order_13492 https://obamawhitehouse.archives.gov/blog/2016/02/23/president-obamas-plan-close-Guantanamo-about-closing-chapter-history
Google isn’t hard to use.
I’m not going to sit here and argue semantics with bad actors trying to obfuscate Americas plunge into fascism. I just want you all to know, you guys are disgusting.
PM if you want to know how I really feel.
It’s not semantics it’s literally cause and effect. In the initial post YOU replied to, they simply stated that if preventative maintenance had been done we would not be having to ask “what reaction is appropriate” so soon. I know YOU’RE looking for answers to the OP, but then you replied to someone simply bemoaning that we could have been better.
Obviously, at this stage no one is really sure what to do. Is the US really sliding into New Nazi Germany? To what degree? What is a proportionate response to any level? Should anyone actually do anything or will the government sort itself out? Remember, 49% of the voting base DID vote for him, as much as you or I disagree with them. To use violence against someone who is, at this stage, still a democratically elected leader, would be fair game to put anyone in prison. That’s the catch-22 of the issue - he’s still fairly elected, but as soon as the declaration of the formation of the first Galactic Empire, you’re already too late.
If someone DID react, what do you do? Peacefully- Strike at work? Block road/railways? Stand in the doorway of trump-aligned businesses? Or escalate into violence- Burn buildings? Which ones? Even further - Does every city devolve into street warfare like Mogadishu in 1993?
Cause and effect. What happens if you do the peaceful things? The violent ones? Will people follow your peaceful resistance and risk their jobs for your cause? Will people follow your violent warpath, and risk their lives for your cause? What happens to them if they do either, or do nothing and ignore you? These are the questions you ask not “well why is everyone bitching about black man sucks”. - not because powerful funny black man sucks, but because his inaction has us asking all the questions above so much sooner than anyone would have liked.