Dumb and reductionist. There are actual nazis, but people seem to have forgotten what fascism and nazis actually are, so yes they do call anyone a nazi.
This only serves to water down the meaning of calling someone a nazi. And then when the real nazis show up, calling them out will have no impact.
This isn’t my story, but it’s been posted dozens of times if you want to look it up.
Guy is in his local pub. Two new guys come in. They don’t seem to be offensive, but the bartender screams at them to get the fuck out.
The bartender explains that those two are part of the local Nazi clique. How the Nazis work is to have two or three guys come to a place and become regulars. After a couple of weeks, they bring in four or five more guys. Then those guys bring in their buddies, and all of a sudden the regulars don’t want to come in any more and, without noticing, it’s now a Nazi bar.
It’s neat how your rebuttal was to something entirely different from what you were responding to.
It’s not that your comment wasn’t valuable in and of itself. But strictly as a rebuttal to “people go overboard by calling people who make them sad a Nazi”, the idea that we should correctly call out actual blatant low-instance Nazi behaviour as Nazi behaviour isn’t a rebuttal so much as it is a speech. This is question-ducking like I haven’t seen outside of politics.
“Hypothetical people misuse the word nazi” is a very small problem, especially in today’s context. You are wasting time and energy and making yourself look like a nazi defender, even if you are acting somehow in good faith.
The argument you are making often comes up as a distraction. Someone will be like “The republicans wanting to put out-groups into camps is seems like a nazi thing to do” and someone like you will pop in with “well actually” and it’s not helpful. Unless you want to keep people unfocused and bickering so they can’t actually organize and cohere around fighting the villains
The one I linked was someone else - I was just talking about in general, banning someone for an opinion of theirs that doesn’t inherently mean they’re a nazi/fascist/communist/etc
when I saw how annoying the .ml profanity filter is
The word filter is a blunt instrument applied to a gnarly problem. I still see trolls try to slide malformed vocabulary and coded phrasing to harass .ml users and vex the mods. But how long do you really expect mods/admins to work on the problem of “the perfect phrasing filter” when the root problem is inevitably the assholes who come to spam the chat with hate?
Just use fire extinguisher or fire suppressant. It’s not like the filter throws the entire post in the trash.
I think the word filter is silly. If people want to say bad words let them. Other people will tell them to fuck off if it’s inappropriate, or report them and get them banned if it’s bad enough.
But what do I know, I say the word retarded because the euphemism treadmill for words that mean distinctly less intelligent than average is totally out of hand.
I think its dated. There was definitely a point, ten or fifteen years ago, when people were very casual with certain slurs and blurring them out was a good way to tap down the inevitable internal board drama over phrasing. But now they’re less common, so you see more people tripping over the triggers than invoking them intentionally.
At the same time, I think we’re headed back in the direction of chuds going on a message board (or out into a crowd) and spamming the n-word as some kind of in-group Owning the Left right-of-passage.
So I won’t begrudge its existence.
I say the word retarded because the euphemism treadmill for words that mean distinctly less intelligent than average is totally out of hand.
I remember clinging to the word “gay” back in college, for what I thought was similar reasons. And it just kept feeling more and more off-key to use, until eventually I stopped of my own accord.
I imagine I’m a bit younger than you. I remember gay=lame very well. I said it. Everyone said it. Then around starting high school I stopped saying it. I knew out of the closet gay people at that point.
I think there’s a big difference between gay meaning lame and retarded meaning stupid.
I think .ml ban people too for being anti-communist but even if i knew of a good alternative, i don’t think there’s proper migrating on Lemmy like Mastodon has - only making a new account
Sh.itjust.works pretty much never bans unless you break international law or spam. Unfortunately that means sometimes Nazis come to this instance but usually they’re bullied out.
As someone that had a .ml account until it was explained to me that racism is explicitly allowed on ml… it’s okay on this instance. You lose hexbear but that’s the only downside.
Just never fall for .ee or .world. terrible instances, those.
So what’s wrong with .world really? I didn’t know shit about Lemmy when I signed up and now I have a two year history. I have a dbzer0 account because they align with my values, but I prefer to use this one because my post history is on here.
.world is the biggest instance and probably has the most new people but what’s really wrong with it?
The easiest, simplest way I can describe it is .world is 2024 reddit, but if they didn’t have corporate sponsors to blame for their actions.
Every decision they make from moderation to the type of communities they defederate with aligns with the most milquetoast US neoliberal viewpoint and sensibility. If that works for you, that’s great until you find the edges of your walled sandbox. But most of us were perma site banned from reddit for being too left wing or otherwise offending the sensibilities of people that believe the US is the peak of humanity that just needs people to vote harder to solve all the problems of the world.
They’ve had some really weird communities pop up in the past and have had some moments of protecting transphobic mods (at least if I remember the PTB comm threads correctly)
Did you misread what I wrote or what little one? I haven’t been defending Nazis, I personally think all Nazis, including most Israelis and Americans, should be explicitly unabashedly killed after a fair trial by a jury of their victims.
That being said being racist towards white people is not against the bigotry rule on ml. You can find this out for yourself, as I did, by reporting instances of it as you find it.
If you think you can’t be racist towards white, you’re closer to a Nazi than one of their victims.
I agree with you but apparently I said it more elegantly and got 33 upvotes instead of 76 downvotes. I guess what you’re not mentioning is that the real neo-nazis really are here this time.
Dumb and reductionist. There are actual nazis, but people seem to have forgotten what fascism and nazis actually are, so yes they do call anyone a nazi.
This only serves to water down the meaning of calling someone a nazi. And then when the real nazis show up, calling them out will have no impact.
Now, feel free to call me a nazi.
Holy shit! It worked!
Now go on for a couple paragraphs about “nuance,” and how “life isn’t always black & white.”
This is why you call them all Nazis.
This isn’t my story, but it’s been posted dozens of times if you want to look it up.
Guy is in his local pub. Two new guys come in. They don’t seem to be offensive, but the bartender screams at them to get the fuck out.
The bartender explains that those two are part of the local Nazi clique. How the Nazis work is to have two or three guys come to a place and become regulars. After a couple of weeks, they bring in four or five more guys. Then those guys bring in their buddies, and all of a sudden the regulars don’t want to come in any more and, without noticing, it’s now a Nazi bar.
It’s neat how your rebuttal was to something entirely different from what you were responding to.
It’s not that your comment wasn’t valuable in and of itself. But strictly as a rebuttal to “people go overboard by calling people who make them sad a Nazi”, the idea that we should correctly call out actual blatant low-instance Nazi behaviour as Nazi behaviour isn’t a rebuttal so much as it is a speech. This is question-ducking like I haven’t seen outside of politics.
The way I look at it, we’ve got real Nazis out here, right now.
So if some idiot calls their roommate a ‘nazi’ because the that person hogs the shower, it really doesn’t matter.
People know the difference between an actual murderer and someone saying, for example, Taylor Swift ‘murdered’ a song.
Misusing words is a minor thing to worry about at this point.
“Hypothetical people misuse the word nazi” is a very small problem, especially in today’s context. You are wasting time and energy and making yourself look like a nazi defender, even if you are acting somehow in good faith.
The argument you are making often comes up as a distraction. Someone will be like “The republicans wanting to put out-groups into camps is seems like a nazi thing to do” and someone like you will pop in with “well actually” and it’s not helpful. Unless you want to keep people unfocused and bickering so they can’t actually organize and cohere around fighting the villains
Well that was easy.
I was thinking of migrating to .world when I saw how annoying the .ml profanity filter is (“fire removedant”) but now I’m glad I didn’t.
Edit: oops, right, this is midwest.social. Anyway, I have seen .world ban for the same normie takes but it was only a suspension
And of course he defended musks salute, is a transphobe and does not know what genocide is.
https://lemmy.sdf.org/post/19124820/12601741
The one I linked was someone else - I was just talking about in general, banning someone for an opinion of theirs that doesn’t inherently mean they’re a nazi/fascist/communist/etc
I was going by the screenshot and missed the linked user.
The word filter is a blunt instrument applied to a gnarly problem. I still see trolls try to slide malformed vocabulary and coded phrasing to harass .ml users and vex the mods. But how long do you really expect mods/admins to work on the problem of “the perfect phrasing filter” when the root problem is inevitably the assholes who come to spam the chat with hate?
Just use fire extinguisher or fire suppressant. It’s not like the filter throws the entire post in the trash.
I think the word filter is silly. If people want to say bad words let them. Other people will tell them to fuck off if it’s inappropriate, or report them and get them banned if it’s bad enough.
But what do I know, I say the word retarded because the euphemism treadmill for words that mean distinctly less intelligent than average is totally out of hand.
I think its dated. There was definitely a point, ten or fifteen years ago, when people were very casual with certain slurs and blurring them out was a good way to tap down the inevitable internal board drama over phrasing. But now they’re less common, so you see more people tripping over the triggers than invoking them intentionally.
At the same time, I think we’re headed back in the direction of chuds going on a message board (or out into a crowd) and spamming the n-word as some kind of in-group Owning the Left right-of-passage.
So I won’t begrudge its existence.
I remember clinging to the word “gay” back in college, for what I thought was similar reasons. And it just kept feeling more and more off-key to use, until eventually I stopped of my own accord.
I imagine I’m a bit younger than you. I remember gay=lame very well. I said it. Everyone said it. Then around starting high school I stopped saying it. I knew out of the closet gay people at that point.
I think there’s a big difference between gay meaning lame and retarded meaning stupid.
Lol, did you know, that aircrafts sometimes call out “Retard”?
https://youtu.be/vmbzKsqKQoI?t=34
It means pull back on the throttle, not the um… ableist slur.
😉
That’s based as shit, stay on .ml if you’ve got a beef with it lol
I think .ml ban people too for being anti-communist but even if i knew of a good alternative, i don’t think there’s proper migrating on Lemmy like Mastodon has - only making a new account
Sh.itjust.works pretty much never bans unless you break international law or spam. Unfortunately that means sometimes Nazis come to this instance but usually they’re bullied out.
As someone that had a .ml account until it was explained to me that racism is explicitly allowed on ml… it’s okay on this instance. You lose hexbear but that’s the only downside.
Just never fall for .ee or .world. terrible instances, those.
So what’s wrong with .world really? I didn’t know shit about Lemmy when I signed up and now I have a two year history. I have a dbzer0 account because they align with my values, but I prefer to use this one because my post history is on here.
.world is the biggest instance and probably has the most new people but what’s really wrong with it?
The easiest, simplest way I can describe it is .world is 2024 reddit, but if they didn’t have corporate sponsors to blame for their actions.
Every decision they make from moderation to the type of communities they defederate with aligns with the most milquetoast US neoliberal viewpoint and sensibility. If that works for you, that’s great until you find the edges of your walled sandbox. But most of us were perma site banned from reddit for being too left wing or otherwise offending the sensibilities of people that believe the US is the peak of humanity that just needs people to vote harder to solve all the problems of the world.
I was wondering why you always seem to have such a hate-boner for .world so I checked your modlog.
It just begs the question:
Why is it that the more shit someone has to talk about a community the bigger the garbage-heap of a modlog they have?
I get .world, but what’s wrong with .ee? I thought that one was supposed to be cool?
They’ve had some really weird communities pop up in the past and have had some moments of protecting transphobic mods (at least if I remember the PTB comm threads correctly)
Thanks for the background.
Wait, racism explicitly allowed on .ml?
That doesn’t sound very Marxist. He was very clear (probably on account of being Jewish)
Yes, as per their explicit policy, you can never be racist or discriminatory against white people no matter what you say or do.
Or in other words they believe in the power dynamic version of racism, instead of the idea that racism is discrimination based on race.
Huh, that’s weird, I don’t see that at all.
Just “no bigotry,” rule 1.
I wonder why one of the guys sealioning in defense of Nazis would lie about that?
Did you misread what I wrote or what little one? I haven’t been defending Nazis, I personally think all Nazis, including most Israelis and Americans, should be explicitly unabashedly killed after a fair trial by a jury of their victims.
That being said being racist towards white people is not against the bigotry rule on ml. You can find this out for yourself, as I did, by reporting instances of it as you find it.
If you think you can’t be racist towards white, you’re closer to a Nazi than one of their victims.
I was thinking of migrating to .world when I saw how annoying the .ml profanity filter is (“fire removedant”) but now I’m glad I didn’t.
(Edit: oops this was midwest.social - idk if .world ban as much for this)
No true Scotsman Fallacy
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_Scotsman
I agree with you but apparently I said it more elegantly and got 33 upvotes instead of 76 downvotes. I guess what you’re not mentioning is that the real neo-nazis really are here this time.