but calling windows shit is unfair. shit can still help plants grow. this is the kind of stuff you lock away in a mine forever and put a sign in front that says this is not a place of honor.
@lritter Yeah, looks like this is what it will take because nothing else works (or everything else is much worse that no amount of enshitification offsets it).
@lritter Yes, this works like that for everything in life.
However it is also the problem. Criminals go for popular things because they go after people using them. Lesser interest to make viruses and exploits goes together with lesser interest to make software, drivers, hardware… Heck, I remember days when a lot of popular websites didn’t work too well with anything except Internet Explorer - and it was real security nightmare at the same time with very real zero click exploits.
@shuro you can’t have it all ;) this is the sacrifice. it also means: no cambists in the temple. that also means very little fraud. enjoy it, while it lasts.
I expect Windows becoming less relevant because of web apps and cloud taking off.
It is not necessarily good by the way, for the most people it already means they don’t have to run anything on their machine… or even have anything on their machine… just buy a subscription for movies, photo storage, email, messaging, office apps, isn’t it great? Gaming isn’t there yet but soon. And all these nice cloud-controlled IoT toys! No drivers, no cables, just your Wi-Fi password (and soon it won’t need even that).
@shuro i do not think browser-based statistics is good. Anyone who do not want different from elsewhere will set windows UA and breaks this statistics. just imagine, how may bots may set windows user agent not being running on windows
You can check other sources and the picture is largely the same.
As for enshitification - not everything is about UI. One watershed moment for me was with XP almost never requiring basic drivers. Maybe except audio. Another was about being able to just use Explorer and not needing additional file manager. Yet another was supporting a lot of file formats out of the box.
Suddenly I needed only OS distro CD to make a simple desktop work.
@shuro supporting formats and hardware out of box never was good side of windows. But 12 years ago i used some PC which did not require installing any driver on windows 2000, EVEN TV TUNER worked out-of-box. None of linux live cd was capable to run it’s sound and network card and there are no drivers for tuner and 3d acceleration on this pc. Network and sound required building some kernel modules, disabled by default
@mittorn Well, my experience was clearly the opposite. Notably I worked in refurbished laptop store back then and later in some factory in IT department - and installing XP was the first thing we did. We had 2000 for most workplaces as established standard but it almost always required drivers for everything and it was even worse before with laptops. XP picked up all basic devices most of the time, quite often - all of them including weirder laptop hardware like IR ports and dock stations.
@shuro it seems, support of this laptop was added after win2k release. Anyway, usually we not expect hardware to work out pf box on windows (at least before win10 which downloads drivers automaticly). Without downloading drivers it requires windows version released at least after hardware was made
@drq @linuxmemes some noses work better than others
but calling windows shit is unfair. shit can still help plants grow. this is the kind of stuff you lock away in a mine forever and put a sign in front that says this is not a place of honor.
@lritter Yeah, looks like this is what it will take because nothing else works (or everything else is much worse that no amount of enshitification offsets it).
@shuro security-wise, being the less popular one has its advantages.
@lritter Yes, this works like that for everything in life.
However it is also the problem. Criminals go for popular things because they go after people using them. Lesser interest to make viruses and exploits goes together with lesser interest to make software, drivers, hardware… Heck, I remember days when a lot of popular websites didn’t work too well with anything except Internet Explorer - and it was real security nightmare at the same time with very real zero click exploits.
@shuro you can’t have it all ;) this is the sacrifice. it also means: no cambists in the temple. that also means very little fraud. enjoy it, while it lasts.
@lritter We’ll see how it goes.
I expect Windows becoming less relevant because of web apps and cloud taking off.
It is not necessarily good by the way, for the most people it already means they don’t have to run anything on their machine… or even have anything on their machine… just buy a subscription for movies, photo storage, email, messaging, office apps, isn’t it great? Gaming isn’t there yet but soon. And all these nice cloud-controlled IoT toys! No drivers, no cables, just your Wi-Fi password (and soon it won’t need even that).
@shuro @lritter what this unknown desktop os?
@mittorn I guess everything that hit their trackers and had adblockers good enough to hide the platform :)
@shuro i do not think browser-based statistics is good. Anyone who do not want different from elsewhere will set windows UA and breaks this statistics. just imagine, how may bots may set windows user agent not being running on windows
@mittorn It is just an example.
You can check other sources and the picture is largely the same.
As for enshitification - not everything is about UI. One watershed moment for me was with XP almost never requiring basic drivers. Maybe except audio. Another was about being able to just use Explorer and not needing additional file manager. Yet another was supporting a lot of file formats out of the box.
Suddenly I needed only OS distro CD to make a simple desktop work.
@shuro supporting formats and hardware out of box never was good side of windows. But 12 years ago i used some PC which did not require installing any driver on windows 2000, EVEN TV TUNER worked out-of-box. None of linux live cd was capable to run it’s sound and network card and there are no drivers for tuner and 3d acceleration on this pc. Network and sound required building some kernel modules, disabled by default
@mittorn Well, my experience was clearly the opposite. Notably I worked in refurbished laptop store back then and later in some factory in IT department - and installing XP was the first thing we did. We had 2000 for most workplaces as established standard but it almost always required drivers for everything and it was even worse before with laptops. XP picked up all basic devices most of the time, quite often - all of them including weirder laptop hardware like IR ports and dock stations.
@shuro it seems, support of this laptop was added after win2k release. Anyway, usually we not expect hardware to work out pf box on windows (at least before win10 which downloads drivers automaticly). Without downloading drivers it requires windows version released at least after hardware was made