Yes, the Irish were (and kind of still are) looked down upon by “Whites”.
They historically chose to address that by becoming cops. Oppressors. The idea being that if they were useful they would at least be better than the brown and yellow people. And irish cops have caused untold horrors amongst labor and minorities.
So while I disagree that “paddy wagon” is an Irish slur so much as MAYBE it is a cop slur, it is close enough that I’ll refrain from using it. But it is still the same issue as with “cracker” where… you are gonna have to try a whole hell of a lot harder for me to care if people’s feelings are hurt that folk don’t appreciate how many skulls they cracked in the name of impressing the crackers.
But you do see how you’re very much engaging in stereotyping by saying that “They historically chose to address that by becoming cops” as if somehow a) all Irish people in America became cops, and b) the experiences of the Irish diaspora in America are somehow representative of all Irish people… Right?
Like, seriously, go ask some Irish people in Northern Ireland how they feel about cops some time. Depending on who you ask you’re guaranteed to get some wildly different answers.
Again. IF we decide that “paddy wagon” is a slur toward the Irish, it is specifically a slur toward Irish cops. And fuck the police.
Simple as that.
Like I said, I’ll try to avoid it in the future because even though there is very little evidence that it is even a slur toward Irish cops, it sounds enough like one that I would rather avoid it. But I am not gonna lose ANY sleep over oppressors getting their fee fees hurt because people don’t like them.
If black people had joined police forces in large numbers for a variety of very complex historical reasons, would you be defending “N****r Wagon” as a perfectly acceptable term right now?
If black people had joined the air force in very large numbers and abused other ethnic and socioeconomic groups as a way to ingratiate themselves to the crackers and we decided to call them “smackers”? I would have zero problems and would whole heartedly say that.
And if someone suddenly decided that “black helicopter” is more a reference to African American pilots? I would do some research, figure out that is instead referring to night flight painting, and probably still avoid using the phrase while not caring all that much.
Speaking of: What are your thoughts on the term “cracker”? Because you clearly don’t understand the difference between a slur that is meant to degrade a human being and one that is meant to refer to an oppressor.
I have no problem with cracker, because exactly as you say, it’s a reaction against institutional power, not an exercise of it.
But “Paddy” has a long history as a term of racist abuse against a deeply disenfranchised racial minority. I’m not sure if you’re even aware that it was widely used outside of the context of the phrase “Paddy wagon.” From the way you’re discussing this, it seems like you’re not.
If a black cop arrests you it’s not suddenly praxis to refer to him by racial slurs just because he’s a cop. Call him a pig or a narc or whatever anti-cop term you like, fucking go off, but excusing racism when it’s specifically against cops is just saying that it’s OK to be racist sometimes, and that’s not something I can remotely agree with.
Yes, the Irish were (and kind of still are) looked down upon by “Whites”.
They historically chose to address that by becoming cops. Oppressors. The idea being that if they were useful they would at least be better than the brown and yellow people. And irish cops have caused untold horrors amongst labor and minorities.
So while I disagree that “paddy wagon” is an Irish slur so much as MAYBE it is a cop slur, it is close enough that I’ll refrain from using it. But it is still the same issue as with “cracker” where… you are gonna have to try a whole hell of a lot harder for me to care if people’s feelings are hurt that folk don’t appreciate how many skulls they cracked in the name of impressing the crackers.
But you do see how you’re very much engaging in stereotyping by saying that “They historically chose to address that by becoming cops” as if somehow a) all Irish people in America became cops, and b) the experiences of the Irish diaspora in America are somehow representative of all Irish people… Right?
Like, seriously, go ask some Irish people in Northern Ireland how they feel about cops some time. Depending on who you ask you’re guaranteed to get some wildly different answers.
Again. IF we decide that “paddy wagon” is a slur toward the Irish, it is specifically a slur toward Irish cops. And fuck the police.
Simple as that.
Like I said, I’ll try to avoid it in the future because even though there is very little evidence that it is even a slur toward Irish cops, it sounds enough like one that I would rather avoid it. But I am not gonna lose ANY sleep over oppressors getting their fee fees hurt because people don’t like them.
If black people had joined police forces in large numbers for a variety of very complex historical reasons, would you be defending “N****r Wagon” as a perfectly acceptable term right now?
If black people had joined the air force in very large numbers and abused other ethnic and socioeconomic groups as a way to ingratiate themselves to the crackers and we decided to call them “smackers”? I would have zero problems and would whole heartedly say that.
And if someone suddenly decided that “black helicopter” is more a reference to African American pilots? I would do some research, figure out that is instead referring to night flight painting, and probably still avoid using the phrase while not caring all that much.
Speaking of: What are your thoughts on the term “cracker”? Because you clearly don’t understand the difference between a slur that is meant to degrade a human being and one that is meant to refer to an oppressor.
I have no problem with cracker, because exactly as you say, it’s a reaction against institutional power, not an exercise of it.
But “Paddy” has a long history as a term of racist abuse against a deeply disenfranchised racial minority. I’m not sure if you’re even aware that it was widely used outside of the context of the phrase “Paddy wagon.” From the way you’re discussing this, it seems like you’re not.
If a black cop arrests you it’s not suddenly praxis to refer to him by racial slurs just because he’s a cop. Call him a pig or a narc or whatever anti-cop term you like, fucking go off, but excusing racism when it’s specifically against cops is just saying that it’s OK to be racist sometimes, and that’s not something I can remotely agree with.