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You are overlooking the part where we normally hang treasoners. It is fantastic for her we didn’t just put her around the wall and tell some people to shoot at her. Solitary, for her safety, is a blessing. Nobody who participated in j6 should even be alive for us to speak about right now.
I’m not overlooking anything. I’m against the death penalty on principle.
But also in practice, because it doesn’t achieve what its proponents claim.
And saying “we” used to just shoot people for their crimes isn’t a convincing argument in itself. “We” also used to lynch black people and electrocute homosexuals.
They’re comparing inhumane treatment from the past to inhumane treatment from the past. Just because something used to be done doesn’t mean it’s acceptable. Also, just because something is better than what used to be done doesn’t mean it’s acceptable.
Justice should be fair. The punishment should not be worse for a trans person. I don’t care what they did, it should be fair.
Consider this rule will also apply to someone who was arrested for something petty, like a drug charge or something. Should they also be tortured by being sent to the wrong prison? This is our chance to fix an issue with the system and maybe get Republicans on our side too. It’s a win-win.
Either we’re better people than then or we’re not. It sounds like you aren’t.
It’s also completely insane to compare a drug dealing offense to literal fucking treason, the thing we hang people over.
You keep saying people can’t compare things, yet I’m not. The fact of the matter is the rules apply to everyone. It doesn’t matter what your offense is, it will get the same rule applied. If we make a rule that your prison is determined by your gender at birth, that’s the rule. It doesn’t matter if you commit treason, kill millions of people, or jaywalk. They don’t say the rule should be different based on offense. It’s just the rule. If you think this person should be in a male prison because they committed treason, you’re condemning all trans people to the same fate.
I am not condemning trans people. I am condemning treasoners. When you commit a crime you should be put in a prison according to your gender identity. That is completely reasonable. When you commit treason and should have been dead last week, I don’t really care where you end up. It should be 6 feet under with some flowers on top of you. Anything more is a blessing.
(edited to add: I myself am trans just to be clear.)
8 years in a men’s prison where she’ll be a target, and that is putting it mildly. It is arguably crueler than a quick hanging or a bullet behind the gas shed, at least in its intent. Direct malice where an execution or an equivalent sentence in a women’s facility, while disdainful, is not about humiliation and ritual purification by the threat of sexual torture. When trans people are put in the wrong prison, it is a punitive measure for that person’s perceived sexual deviance, and an open threat to the rest of the queer community: rape is and has always been considered an acceptable punishment for sexual minorities. If America had wanted to fix that, it might have, but American prisons are punitive above all else. So the question becomes, do we endorse torture on our political enemies? I don’t think we are the enlightened side of good if we argue “be thankful we don’t execute you.”
Beside, I hate the idea of a citizen committing “treason”. I have absolutely no loyalty whatsoever to my country, I just happen to be born there, I didn’t chose it, I didn’t signed up for it.
By definition only citizens can commit treason? I don’t have any loyalty either (I’m an anarchist) but if I pick up arms against my country I know what to expect. It might involve a lot of getting shot.
It’s also not okay to attempt treason (and be bad at it, too.) She will be in protective solitary confinement and and solitary is where she belongs.
I realize solitary is considered torture, but not too long ago we would just straight up execute treasoners. This is an improvement.
She is being put in prison for insurrection.
She is being put in solitary (which is torture) for being trans.
You are overlooking the part where we normally hang treasoners. It is fantastic for her we didn’t just put her around the wall and tell some people to shoot at her. Solitary, for her safety, is a blessing. Nobody who participated in j6 should even be alive for us to speak about right now.
I’m not overlooking anything. I’m against the death penalty on principle.
But also in practice, because it doesn’t achieve what its proponents claim.
And saying “we” used to just shoot people for their crimes isn’t a convincing argument in itself. “We” also used to lynch black people and electrocute homosexuals.
You cannot seriously be comparing homosexuality to trying overthrow a country.
They’re comparing inhumane treatment from the past to inhumane treatment from the past. Just because something used to be done doesn’t mean it’s acceptable. Also, just because something is better than what used to be done doesn’t mean it’s acceptable.
Justice should be fair. The punishment should not be worse for a trans person. I don’t care what they did, it should be fair.
Consider this rule will also apply to someone who was arrested for something petty, like a drug charge or something. Should they also be tortured by being sent to the wrong prison? This is our chance to fix an issue with the system and maybe get Republicans on our side too. It’s a win-win.
Either we’re better people than then or we’re not. It sounds like you aren’t.
I absolutely am not. I don’t think they should be tortured. I think they should have been executed like a year ago. The torture is a compromise.
It’s also completely insane to compare a drug dealing offense to literal fucking treason, the thing we hang people over.
You keep saying people can’t compare things, yet I’m not. The fact of the matter is the rules apply to everyone. It doesn’t matter what your offense is, it will get the same rule applied. If we make a rule that your prison is determined by your gender at birth, that’s the rule. It doesn’t matter if you commit treason, kill millions of people, or jaywalk. They don’t say the rule should be different based on offense. It’s just the rule. If you think this person should be in a male prison because they committed treason, you’re condemning all trans people to the same fate.
I am not condemning trans people. I am condemning treasoners. When you commit a crime you should be put in a prison according to your gender identity. That is completely reasonable. When you commit treason and should have been dead last week, I don’t really care where you end up. It should be 6 feet under with some flowers on top of you. Anything more is a blessing.
(edited to add: I myself am trans just to be clear.)
You’re misunderstanding my comment on purpose.
Username checks out I guess.
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8 years in a men’s prison where she’ll be a target, and that is putting it mildly. It is arguably crueler than a quick hanging or a bullet behind the gas shed, at least in its intent. Direct malice where an execution or an equivalent sentence in a women’s facility, while disdainful, is not about humiliation and ritual purification by the threat of sexual torture. When trans people are put in the wrong prison, it is a punitive measure for that person’s perceived sexual deviance, and an open threat to the rest of the queer community: rape is and has always been considered an acceptable punishment for sexual minorities. If America had wanted to fix that, it might have, but American prisons are punitive above all else. So the question becomes, do we endorse torture on our political enemies? I don’t think we are the enlightened side of good if we argue “be thankful we don’t execute you.”
Who does??
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Canada doesn’t even have the death penalty.
I don’t care. It doesn’t make it OK.
Beside, I hate the idea of a citizen committing “treason”. I have absolutely no loyalty whatsoever to my country, I just happen to be born there, I didn’t chose it, I didn’t signed up for it.
By definition only citizens can commit treason? I don’t have any loyalty either (I’m an anarchist) but if I pick up arms against my country I know what to expect. It might involve a lot of getting shot.