• Kalash
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    211 year ago

    Low-density sprawl essentially requires cars.

    I disagree. I live in the suburbs in Europe and there is plenty of single family homes with a garden here. But you’re still always within 500m of a bus stop or tramline. Have been living here without a car for quite while, it’s fine.

    • @[email protected]OPM
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      181 year ago

      I’d be curious what the population density numbers are. There’s a world of difference in density between, say, single-family rowhouses and classic American suburbia.

      • @[email protected]
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        91 year ago

        My math is here: https://lemmy.world/comment/3165486

        But essentially, for the same cost as cars, the lowest density possible before becoming rural 106 households / sq mi (6 acres per household) can have a bus pass every 6 minutes, 24/7/365. You can double frequency by adding a second stop on the way to a transit spine.

        • DreamButt
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          81 year ago

          The idea that an American city might have a housing area A) without roads and B) with a bus stop and C) one that shows up every 6 minutes instead of once an hour makes me want to cry

      • Kalash
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        1 year ago

        Yeah, I think it’s mostly rowhouses.

        Also the entire suburb spreads along through a valley, so it’s like long and thin, which makes it very easy to run a central tramline through it.

        But it still should be possible anywhere with good public transport.

        • @[email protected]OPM
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          1 year ago

          Ah, there’s your answer. I love rowhouses and think they and other “missing middle” are a great compromise for getting denser, more walkable, more transit-oriented communities while still avoiding being like Manhattan. True low-density sprawl (as seen in so much of the US and Canada) is detached single-family homes with large setback requirements, large parking minimums, and typically large lot size minimums. It’s purposefully designed to essentially enforce car-dependent sprawl.

          The style of development you describe is what we call streetcar suburbs, as they were generally developed along streetcar lines in the days of yore.

          • Kalash
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            51 year ago

            The style of development you describe is what we call streetcar suburbs, as they were generally developed along streetcar lines in the days of yore.

            Yeah, you need to build these, they are great. During the busy hours, mine is like a 150m walk away and there is tram or streetcar every 3.5 minutes. It’s amazing.

        • @Iamdanno
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          11 year ago

          Rowhouses: “let’s turn your house into an apartment!”

          Why anyone would want to have their house attached to someone else’s is beyond me.

          • Kalash
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            81 year ago

            But unlike in an apartment, you have the whole height of the building, so nobody above or below you. And the walls seperating the houses are really thick, so noise is much better than in an appartment block.

            I guess you give up mostly garden space. I don’t think people specifically “want” that, but it’s still usually cheaper and much better situated than a proper free-standing house.

            • @[email protected]OPM
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              21 year ago

              And most people don’t use front or side yards for much anyways, just decoration. I’d much rather have backyard than those, especially if it means I get the amenities that come with density, such as transit and walkability.

              Plus, rowhouses just look so aesthetically pleasing. I don’t understand how anyone hates rowhouses.

              • Kalash
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                1 year ago

                A college of mine owns a rowhouse around here, fully paid for and all. It’s worth like a quarter million … in CHF on the market. Housing prices are just insane. Compared to me he is super rich, even though he earns less than me.

                Though, we’re quite far off the topic of cars now. But you are OP and Mod, so what do I know.

            • Semi-Hemi-Demigod
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              11 year ago

              But unlike in an apartment, you have the whole height of the building, so nobody above or below you. And the walls seperating the houses are really thick, so noise is much better than in an appartment block.

              That entirely depends on the construction. When I lived in a row home the duct work for the master bedrooms on either side shared a space with no sound insulation, so each side could hear just about everything in the other.

          • @[email protected]
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            1 year ago

            I live in a house attached to someone else’s and it’s pretty great

            We have big open spaces in front and behind us instead of each house having their own big lawn. We have separate, fenced backyards but behind that is just a big open field with some benches and tables and trees scattered about.