If you’re considering buying one you might want to take into account that they removed the headphone jack so they can sell their own wireless buds and headphones.
I care less about the lack of a headphone jack and more about the lack of multiple ports
USB C is genuinely a great multiport, but all of these companies leave the phone with one port. People would care less if each phone had two ports, so you could plug in headphones via adapter while also charging
I have. They tend to be poorly shielded so you get all kinds of hiss and other shenanigans in the audio when you’re charging and listening at the same time. The adapters exist, but I’ve yet to come across one that isn’t terrible.
Those suck worse than the old school 3.5mm splitters we all used back in the discman, and later iPod days.
The removal of the headphone jack is one of the worst developments in personal electronics over the last 30 years. Personally I hope that the EU’s next port mandate forces its reintroduction as Bluetooth headphones are an environmental catastrophe.
you mean this strange old socket that is (at least for me) primarily used for collecting dust since almost a decade? yeah, personally I can live without it.
and this fortunately is not apple. You can use every brand of earbud and use all of the features, so I don’t really get your point at all. the phone is very good and I hope I will be able to use it until the 30s
Having a headphone jack will let you use any kind of headphone produced in the last 50 years, which has a 3.5mm jack. Also, while listening to music you could also charge your phone, if you choose to, but not with a USB-C only port. Furthermore, USB-C DACs are stupid, they are an annoyance, even the ones with the shortest cables - I broke three of them in two months because they’re idiotically designed and they don’t fold in my pocket - a thing that never happened with headphone cables.
Two years in and providing a USB-C adapter my wife is still complaining that her current phone doesn’t have a headphone jack.
For my daughter I selected the phone mostly for repairability combined with colour choice, which landed me with Nokia - which ended up having a headphone jack. Didn’t pay attention to that, but she’s happy it is there.
I know with my iPhone 12 Siri is shit on my Sony linkbuds. It won’t read my messages like it would with the AirPods I replaced or allow me to reply with them
Tell me a pair of wireless headphones that are as good and around the same price as the moondrop Aria’s with extremely low latency (so they can be used for rhythm games) and can buy a replacement case for not too much.
Also Bluetooth’s audio quality is terrible when also using the microphone at the same time. So you can’t really make a call and enjoy listening to music at the same time
I got a 30 dollar pair of knockoff ipods for my Samsung and the audio quality is better than the wired akg buds it came with. They also sell for less now. No issues with battery life and the case has a battery level display. They also can be wirelessly charged. They’re my favorites.
Any evidence for that theory? I guess I’ve used Bluetooth hesdphones for years, so I’ve not got skin in the game. Lots of android devices seem to not have a headphone jack. And each part removed is one less part to pay for, or replace, or have to water proof. I’ve not looked into it because I’m happy to trade sound quality for wireless convienece, but umarent headphones that use the usb c port comparable in quality to 3.5mm?
But if there’s a leaked memo or something that it was a concerted plan by the company that would certainly be bad.
I just keep a USB c dongle permanently attached to my wired headphones, I forget it’s there. It adds like 1" to the overall cable length. I basically just converted all my wired headphones into USB c headphones.
I mean, I don’t know their other practices, but the removal of the headphone jack is hardly green washing. I’d bet it actually is more sustainable to not include it tbh, plus it is likely more affordable. Beyond that, with just looking into it, as I expected, they’re a more sustainable and repairable set of headphones compared to the rest of the market. Moreover, I highly doubt dropping the jack would drive folks to decide to buy these if they weren’t already. They’re not tiny earbuds. They’re over the ear which is generally something folks buy when they actually are looking for them.
Sometimes accelerated progress can lead to waste, but holding onto legacy tech for too long can also lead to waste.
The big issue with removing the headphones jack is just that it’s now impossible to use wired headphones while charging the phone.
For a lot of people that doesn’t matter but for some of us that’s a big deal. If they added a second USB-C port that would fix the issue.
But saying the 3.5 jack is legacy technology is also kinda wrong. A USB headset is not inherently better. You have to compare the digital audio converter that’s used. While USB headphones use their own dac, the jack uses the dac of the phone. So a cheap phone with high quality USB headphones will be better but a high quality phone with cheap USB headphones would be worse than using the jack.
Which even means jacks would be more sustainable because you only need one dac per phone rather than one per headphone.
And any form of wireless headphones are just inferior to wired connections.
I didn’t say a USB headset is inherently better. The one on your phone isn’t inherently better either if you’re using a 3.5mm jack either. So the argument can work both ways. And to be honest, no phone really has amazing onboard DAC, and especially not the Fairphone.
I’d bet it actually is more sustainable to not include it tbh, plus it is likely more affordable.
Mmm now you’re dealing with powered devices that have another two batteries that wear out, plus the battery in the charging case, all the electronics involved, etc etc
Vs a simple plastic connector and an associated amplifier IC that costs about $3 in quantity.
You can still use a wired headset if you so wish with your $3 connector. But when someone wants wireless, it’s nice to have the option.
I don’t blame Fairphone trying to make their product less expensive to produce. It’s not like they’re the biggest sellers in the world or benefitting from economies of scale as much as other companies.
So what you’re saying is the existing crowd with the existing hardware should buy the adapter cable, which if you want to talk sustainability, is more resource intensive to produce than internal phone components, using considerably more copper/PVC/etc by having two connectors in it.
So that the crowd with Bluetooth, which is pretty much provided by every phone wifi chipset by default and is no doubt provided by a chipset like that in the Fairphone, can use Bluetooth.
I don’t blame them that much for trying to reduce costs/component count. But I do wonder how many potential customers a manufacturer who is trying to promote freedom of choice/software loses when they remove a particular freedom/choice from their phone.
Removing the headphone socket does grant an extra degree of waterproofing. You don’t have to make that area of the phone quite as robust either - a 3.5mm plug has quite a lot of leverage on your PCB when it’s plugged in. There’s now room on the PCB for … something else they need/want to put on there, another ram chip, a cubic centimetre for extra battery (which apple tried to justify as their reason), something like that.
But it does mean that they lose at least a few people who like the general simplicity of a wired connection.
Your first paragraph is wrong imo. A minority of users are using 3.5mm jack, including a port on the phone for all users results in more waste than having that minority buy an adapter that can be re used on any phone in the future.
Also please don’t argue that jack users aren’t a minority now. Most users don’t care about having the port on their phone, and most are happy with wireless.
I’ll argue what I want, it’s my opinion, just like it’s your opinion to state that my first paragraph is wrong, and to follow on I would like to counter-assert that most people just deal with what they get when they buy a phone and don’t get to have much say in the matter, whether they like it or not. :-)
If you agree that, in general , all users have headphones of some sort, and that both types of users can take said headphones along to their next phone, then:
I will argue that we still end up in the same position. That is, a single port (and internal chips) + cabled headphones needs less resources compared to using an existing multi purpose Bluetooth chip in the phone and now having two extra battery devices with electronics to provide reception and amplification in each bud (effectively duplicating that which was originally contained in the phone). I resist the idea that removing the headphone socket is somehow a “better” choice sustainability-wise, and I will continue to do so.
It would be even more sustainable to not include the Bluetooth module. Less parts means less material use (making it greener) and less cost of materials as well (making it cheaper). The phone has speakers for audio anyway. Who wants to carry around some second accessory like headphones or earbuds? It’s not like anyone has a perfectly valid use case for the Bluetooth module, right?
Is this a fair argument in 2023 with all the options for wireless headphones/buds? I feel like it still sucks because you can’t use your dollar store wired sets, but there are enough cheap raycon clones out now that it’s hardly a guaranteed secondary sale at this point.
because you can’t use your dollar store wired sets, but there are enough cheap raycon clones out now that it’s hardly a guaranteed secondary sale at this point.
It’s more about not being able to use existing high-end headphones and IEMs. It’s wasteful and expensive to replace those.
There are workarounds of course, but it’s never as nice as having a real headphone jack to work with.
Tell me a pair of wireless headphones that are as good and around the same price as the moondrop Aria’s with extremely low latency (so they can be used for rhythm games) and can buy a replacement case for not too much.
Also Raycons are trash. Like they’re literally e-waste for how bad they are
Also Bluetooth’s audio quality is terrible when also using the microphone at the same time. So you can’t really make a call and enjoy listening to music at the same time
At that point you’re getting a very specific phone for a very specific purpose. It’s not the rule but the exception. So it doesn’t apply as a reason for any other phone. You’ve argued why the LG has a 3.5mm jack, not why Fairphone should have a 3.5mm jack. I’d also be curious as to how powerfully it can even drive headphones at that point. It must also have a stronger amplifier than most phones too. It’d be meaningless without it. What’s the point of high fidelity if it can’t drive headphones that can utilize it.
This is all getting away from the purpose of the Fairphone. It’s not a dedicated music player. It’s not advertising high fidelity music, psrticyij relation to other phones. I don’t think anyone is calling that LG phone “green” either.
Congratulations to anyone who can think of an edge case that wouldn’t apply to the Fairphone. Might as well mention a tensor chip not being in the Fairphone.
No one doesn’t know that you can use an adapter. No one wants to carry that around. They cost money and you have to keep track of them. And you can’t charge the phone and listen simultaneously.
They did not do it to improve waterproofing. We have had several phones over the course of decades that were both very water resistant and included headphone jacks, so you can just stop with that capitalist non-sense.
Those phones were presumably glued together and not as repairable as the Fairphone is. Which is very useful, but does lower your waterproof rating, hence the need to compensate elsewhere.
I really feel like people are too quick to assume malice, generally. Often, there are just trade-offs with no clearly-right answer, and it’s not obvious to folks like us on the outside what those trade-offs are.
Copying my reply to this same point from elsewhere:
Those phones were presumably glued together and not as repairable as the Fairphone is. Which is very useful, but does lower your waterproof rating, hence the need to compensate elsewhere.
I really feel like people are too quick to assume malice, generally. Often, there are just trade-offs with no clearly-right answer, and it’s not obvious to folks like us on the outside what those trade-offs are.
Ok, Fairphone lied I guess. You obviously no better than the manufacturers. It’s not like other phones with those jacks likely cost more to water proof those jacks or anything. Everything is always exactly the same and doesn’t cost extra to do anything differently.
Judging by how much phones cost I expect them to be water resistant and have headphone jack. And besides, Fairphone said they removed it because it was a “point of failure” while conveniently releasing their own wireless headphones.
If you’re considering buying one you might want to take into account that they removed the headphone jack so they can sell their own wireless buds and headphones.
I care less about the lack of a headphone jack and more about the lack of multiple ports
USB C is genuinely a great multiport, but all of these companies leave the phone with one port. People would care less if each phone had two ports, so you could plug in headphones via adapter while also charging
There are actually dongles which have both an audio jack and a USB c port. I never used one of those dongles though
I have. They tend to be poorly shielded so you get all kinds of hiss and other shenanigans in the audio when you’re charging and listening at the same time. The adapters exist, but I’ve yet to come across one that isn’t terrible.
Those suck worse than the old school 3.5mm splitters we all used back in the discman, and later iPod days.
The removal of the headphone jack is one of the worst developments in personal electronics over the last 30 years. Personally I hope that the EU’s next port mandate forces its reintroduction as Bluetooth headphones are an environmental catastrophe.
you mean this strange old socket that is (at least for me) primarily used for collecting dust since almost a decade? yeah, personally I can live without it.
and this fortunately is not apple. You can use every brand of earbud and use all of the features, so I don’t really get your point at all. the phone is very good and I hope I will be able to use it until the 30s
Having a headphone jack will let you use any kind of headphone produced in the last 50 years, which has a 3.5mm jack. Also, while listening to music you could also charge your phone, if you choose to, but not with a USB-C only port. Furthermore, USB-C DACs are stupid, they are an annoyance, even the ones with the shortest cables - I broke three of them in two months because they’re idiotically designed and they don’t fold in my pocket - a thing that never happened with headphone cables.
You also don’t get a noticeable delay on the audio, which imo makes watching any video horrible
Two years in and providing a USB-C adapter my wife is still complaining that her current phone doesn’t have a headphone jack.
For my daughter I selected the phone mostly for repairability combined with colour choice, which landed me with Nokia - which ended up having a headphone jack. Didn’t pay attention to that, but she’s happy it is there.
Out of curiosity, what features are restricted on iPhones for off-brand earbuds?
I know with my iPhone 12 Siri is shit on my Sony linkbuds. It won’t read my messages like it would with the AirPods I replaced or allow me to reply with them
Tell me a pair of wireless headphones that are as good and around the same price as the moondrop Aria’s with extremely low latency (so they can be used for rhythm games) and can buy a replacement case for not too much.
Also Bluetooth’s audio quality is terrible when also using the microphone at the same time. So you can’t really make a call and enjoy listening to music at the same time
I agree with you, but why would you make a calla and listen to music at the same time?
I used to do it all the time during Corona while being home schooled.
Or when you simply just want to watch a video together.
I got a 30 dollar pair of knockoff ipods for my Samsung and the audio quality is better than the wired akg buds it came with. They also sell for less now. No issues with battery life and the case has a battery level display. They also can be wirelessly charged. They’re my favorites.
I always plug in my car stereo to that old socket in my car…
You might want to look into a bluetooth to FM radio dongle
I tried one, it sucked balls, it was a cheap brand though, so I’m open to recommendations.
That was one of the main reasons I was interested in their phones :/
I miss that modular phone people went crazy about for a week or 2 until it died out
Google bought and killed it
Any evidence for that theory? I guess I’ve used Bluetooth hesdphones for years, so I’ve not got skin in the game. Lots of android devices seem to not have a headphone jack. And each part removed is one less part to pay for, or replace, or have to water proof. I’ve not looked into it because I’m happy to trade sound quality for wireless convienece, but umarent headphones that use the usb c port comparable in quality to 3.5mm?
But if there’s a leaked memo or something that it was a concerted plan by the company that would certainly be bad.
I just keep a USB c dongle permanently attached to my wired headphones, I forget it’s there. It adds like 1" to the overall cable length. I basically just converted all my wired headphones into USB c headphones.
deleted by creator
I mean, I don’t know their other practices, but the removal of the headphone jack is hardly green washing. I’d bet it actually is more sustainable to not include it tbh, plus it is likely more affordable. Beyond that, with just looking into it, as I expected, they’re a more sustainable and repairable set of headphones compared to the rest of the market. Moreover, I highly doubt dropping the jack would drive folks to decide to buy these if they weren’t already. They’re not tiny earbuds. They’re over the ear which is generally something folks buy when they actually are looking for them.
Sometimes accelerated progress can lead to waste, but holding onto legacy tech for too long can also lead to waste.
The big issue with removing the headphones jack is just that it’s now impossible to use wired headphones while charging the phone.
For a lot of people that doesn’t matter but for some of us that’s a big deal. If they added a second USB-C port that would fix the issue.
But saying the 3.5 jack is legacy technology is also kinda wrong. A USB headset is not inherently better. You have to compare the digital audio converter that’s used. While USB headphones use their own dac, the jack uses the dac of the phone. So a cheap phone with high quality USB headphones will be better but a high quality phone with cheap USB headphones would be worse than using the jack.
Which even means jacks would be more sustainable because you only need one dac per phone rather than one per headphone.
And any form of wireless headphones are just inferior to wired connections.
just carry an entire usb hub with you
I didn’t say a USB headset is inherently better. The one on your phone isn’t inherently better either if you’re using a 3.5mm jack either. So the argument can work both ways. And to be honest, no phone really has amazing onboard DAC, and especially not the Fairphone.
Mmm now you’re dealing with powered devices that have another two batteries that wear out, plus the battery in the charging case, all the electronics involved, etc etc
Vs a simple plastic connector and an associated amplifier IC that costs about $3 in quantity.
You can still use a wired headset if you so wish with your $3 connector. But when someone wants wireless, it’s nice to have the option.
I don’t blame Fairphone trying to make their product less expensive to produce. It’s not like they’re the biggest sellers in the world or benefitting from economies of scale as much as other companies.
So what you’re saying is the existing crowd with the existing hardware should buy the adapter cable, which if you want to talk sustainability, is more resource intensive to produce than internal phone components, using considerably more copper/PVC/etc by having two connectors in it.
So that the crowd with Bluetooth, which is pretty much provided by every phone wifi chipset by default and is no doubt provided by a chipset like that in the Fairphone, can use Bluetooth.
I don’t blame them that much for trying to reduce costs/component count. But I do wonder how many potential customers a manufacturer who is trying to promote freedom of choice/software loses when they remove a particular freedom/choice from their phone.
Removing the headphone socket does grant an extra degree of waterproofing. You don’t have to make that area of the phone quite as robust either - a 3.5mm plug has quite a lot of leverage on your PCB when it’s plugged in. There’s now room on the PCB for … something else they need/want to put on there, another ram chip, a cubic centimetre for extra battery (which apple tried to justify as their reason), something like that.
But it does mean that they lose at least a few people who like the general simplicity of a wired connection.
Your first paragraph is wrong imo. A minority of users are using 3.5mm jack, including a port on the phone for all users results in more waste than having that minority buy an adapter that can be re used on any phone in the future.
Also please don’t argue that jack users aren’t a minority now. Most users don’t care about having the port on their phone, and most are happy with wireless.
I’ll argue what I want, it’s my opinion, just like it’s your opinion to state that my first paragraph is wrong, and to follow on I would like to counter-assert that most people just deal with what they get when they buy a phone and don’t get to have much say in the matter, whether they like it or not. :-)
If you agree that, in general , all users have headphones of some sort, and that both types of users can take said headphones along to their next phone, then:
I will argue that we still end up in the same position. That is, a single port (and internal chips) + cabled headphones needs less resources compared to using an existing multi purpose Bluetooth chip in the phone and now having two extra battery devices with electronics to provide reception and amplification in each bud (effectively duplicating that which was originally contained in the phone). I resist the idea that removing the headphone socket is somehow a “better” choice sustainability-wise, and I will continue to do so.
It would be even more sustainable to not include the Bluetooth module. Less parts means less material use (making it greener) and less cost of materials as well (making it cheaper). The phone has speakers for audio anyway. Who wants to carry around some second accessory like headphones or earbuds? It’s not like anyone has a perfectly valid use case for the Bluetooth module, right?
Also, it doesn’t feature a serial port. This phone is almost useless. /s
You forgot PS/2. No one’s gonna use this USB thing, it sucks.
Yeah I think so too
Is this a fair argument in 2023 with all the options for wireless headphones/buds? I feel like it still sucks because you can’t use your dollar store wired sets, but there are enough cheap raycon clones out now that it’s hardly a guaranteed secondary sale at this point.
It’s more about not being able to use existing high-end headphones and IEMs. It’s wasteful and expensive to replace those.
There are workarounds of course, but it’s never as nice as having a real headphone jack to work with.
Tell me a pair of wireless headphones that are as good and around the same price as the moondrop Aria’s with extremely low latency (so they can be used for rhythm games) and can buy a replacement case for not too much.
Also Raycons are trash. Like they’re literally e-waste for how bad they are
Also Bluetooth’s audio quality is terrible when also using the microphone at the same time. So you can’t really make a call and enjoy listening to music at the same time
Who is listening to music on the same headset while making a phone call?
And why use your phone’s onboard DAC at that point if you want quality headphones?
Some phones (LG) did actually come with a HQ DAC.
At that point you’re getting a very specific phone for a very specific purpose. It’s not the rule but the exception. So it doesn’t apply as a reason for any other phone. You’ve argued why the LG has a 3.5mm jack, not why Fairphone should have a 3.5mm jack. I’d also be curious as to how powerfully it can even drive headphones at that point. It must also have a stronger amplifier than most phones too. It’d be meaningless without it. What’s the point of high fidelity if it can’t drive headphones that can utilize it.
This is all getting away from the purpose of the Fairphone. It’s not a dedicated music player. It’s not advertising high fidelity music, psrticyij relation to other phones. I don’t think anyone is calling that LG phone “green” either.
Congratulations to anyone who can think of an edge case that wouldn’t apply to the Fairphone. Might as well mention a tensor chip not being in the Fairphone.
You can also buy a cheap USB C-to-headphone-jack adapter.
The main reason they did it is to get a higher water-proof rating, making it easier to last longer.
No one doesn’t know that you can use an adapter. No one wants to carry that around. They cost money and you have to keep track of them. And you can’t charge the phone and listen simultaneously.
They did not do it to improve waterproofing. We have had several phones over the course of decades that were both very water resistant and included headphone jacks, so you can just stop with that capitalist non-sense.
Those phones were presumably glued together and not as repairable as the Fairphone is. Which is very useful, but does lower your waterproof rating, hence the need to compensate elsewhere.
I really feel like people are too quick to assume malice, generally. Often, there are just trade-offs with no clearly-right answer, and it’s not obvious to folks like us on the outside what those trade-offs are.
Please stop with water resistance nonsense. There were phones with headphone jacks that were waterproof.
Copying my reply to this same point from elsewhere:
Galaxy S5 not only had a headphone jack and was water resistant but it had a removable battery as well.
Could you also replace the screen, camera’s, USB port, loudspeaker and earpiece with nothing but a screwdriver?
I don’t see how is exclusion of headphone jack going to help with water resistance if everything is held with screws anyway.
My guess would be that it’s one less hole that water/dust can get in?
If they figured out a way to keep it out of usb c hole then it isn’t a rocket science to keep the water from going in through headphone jack.
Ok, Fairphone lied I guess. You obviously no better than the manufacturers. It’s not like other phones with those jacks likely cost more to water proof those jacks or anything. Everything is always exactly the same and doesn’t cost extra to do anything differently.
Judging by how much phones cost I expect them to be water resistant and have headphone jack. And besides, Fairphone said they removed it because it was a “point of failure” while conveniently releasing their own wireless headphones.
Louis Rossman was very against this idea, and gotta say I side with him on this.
Would be helpful if you could share why he was against that idea.
It has been a long time since I watched his video, don’t remember what his points were but check it out for yourself. Here.
Hehe thanks, I’m not a fan of watching videos, but I understand you don’t feel like rehashing the points here either :)
Here is an alternative Piped link(s):
Here
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I’m open-source; check me out at GitHub.