Apologies for being straightforward, but emotional hyperbole like this does not help anything.
Did you ever just stop to consider that in their belief system they believe that a child in a womb is a living being, and not just a clump of cells, and that they see it as murder to abort it?
Not saying that’s true or not, just that’s how they see it. And if you want to change their minds, you need to attack that philosophy, and not just brand them as cruel persons to be shunned/destroyed.
Finally, I get you’re going to want to just attack me personally for calling you out on the hyperbole, but please, consider the words I’ve said here. I’m not just saying that for my own gratification, but hopefully to help you help change the world.
If this were the case why do they consistently vote against government support birth control, pregnancy support programs, maternity leave, and aid programs to mothers? Be a bit like vegans demanding tax breaks for the beef industry or doctors wanting cigarette machines in middle schools.
If I thought it was murder I would definitely be doing what I could to make murder happen less often. And I know this because when I was a theist I leaned towards it being more restrictive and still supported government programs.
If this were the case why do they consistently vote against government support birth control, pregnancy support programs, maternity leave, and aid programs to mothers?
Again, it comes down to their belief systems, “be fruitful and multiply”, etc., etc.
If I thought it was murder I would definitely be doing what I could to make murder happen less often.
I’m just repeating what I’ve heard from conservatives I spoke to directly as well as conservatives who spoke out loud on TV and other media.
And I know this because when I was a theist I leaned towards it being more restrictive and still supported government programs.
IMO I don’t think they’re really thinking about government programs when they’re trying to protect unborn life (as they put it). From someone on the outside looking in, it seems more of an emotional decision that they’re making, versus a logical one.
I have no problems with emotional decisions. I have a problem that they inconsistent. If you really really think that there should be more babies and abortion was murder you should also support massive infusions of government cash to protect those babies. Which they never do.
I agree that you heard them say that but just because someone is talking doesn’t mean they are being truthful. Again, I was on the other side of this issue and I remember what I believed. My parents had 5 kids, I have 11 cousins. I have always known that raising kids was difficult and the government should provide help.
I agree that you heard them say that but just because someone is talking doesn’t mean they are being truthful.
Just a clarification, it was many people saying that over multiple decades in multiple instances on multiple media.
I personally have multiple friends who are conservative, from different families.
I point that out just to make the point that I don’t think they all were being untruthful, and IMO I think they all (or vast majority of) were being truthful to their belief system.
Are people telling the truth if there are a lot of them? Are people telling the truth if they say the same thing a decade apart in time? Or are people telling the truth about what they believe when they show a consistent resoned opinion that has all the basic objections to it understood?
I know people who make solid arguments for and against gun control and they all have a well thought out set of reasons and can usually deal with standard objections. I don’t see this at all with the forced birth crowd.
Are people telling the truth if there are a lot of them?
The odds are that some of them at least are.
And my personal impressions after speaking to them over the decades on the issue is that most if not all of them are being truthful, to their belief system.
Don’t mean to be argumentative with you on this one, but I can’t buy into your assertion of that they’re all lying, that 0% of them are being truthful. It’s not what I’ve seen.
I agree that you heard them say that but just because someone is talking doesn’t mean they are being truthful.
That could be said about anyone at any time about anything. To me that’s just hand waving away somebody else’s opinion so you don’t have to deal with it, and it’s not valid.
I can tell you I have some personal friends who are conservatives (as well those are liberal minded), and I’ve heard the same kind of comments from them as I described here, and I believe what they’re saying. Would be strangely weird for all my conservative friends to be coordination lying on something that doesn’t really require lying.
You know, you could go and ask them yourself, instead of just assuming that they’re lying and manipulating. Homo-sapiens are never that straightforward.
If this were the case why do they consistently vote against government support birth control, pregnancy support programs, maternity leave, and aid programs to mothers?
My guess would be because they don’t want to spend money on other people, or at least other people that are not inside of “their” group.
That and the inefficiency (in their minds) of government programs and how their hard-earned tax money is spent.
Finally as far as maternity leave goes, they don’t want to pay workers and not get work out of them, though I’m not sure that’s a conservative only philosophy, or more like a Capitalism one.
I reject the premise that being pro-life is about a moral conviction regarding the sanctity of life. If that is in fact the moral underpinning that informs the pro-life position, then we would expect to see a similar consistency with regard to all other issues relating to the protection of human life, but we don’t.
What it’s really about is controlling women and maintaining a hierarchy by ensuring that sex without reproductive consequences is impossible.
Pro-lifers tell themselves that it’s about the sanctity of life because by the rules of cognitive dissonance they have to rationalize a way to see themselves as the good guys, but again, all of that is belied by the fact that they don’t seem to believe in the primacy of human life in any other context.
Unfortunately, this kind of cognitive trick is a very human and very common thing. We all do it to one extent or another.
Removed by mod
Apologies for being straightforward, but emotional hyperbole like this does not help anything.
Did you ever just stop to consider that in their belief system they believe that a child in a womb is a living being, and not just a clump of cells, and that they see it as murder to abort it?
Not saying that’s true or not, just that’s how they see it. And if you want to change their minds, you need to attack that philosophy, and not just brand them as cruel persons to be shunned/destroyed.
Finally, I get you’re going to want to just attack me personally for calling you out on the hyperbole, but please, consider the words I’ve said here. I’m not just saying that for my own gratification, but hopefully to help you help change the world.
If this were the case why do they consistently vote against government support birth control, pregnancy support programs, maternity leave, and aid programs to mothers? Be a bit like vegans demanding tax breaks for the beef industry or doctors wanting cigarette machines in middle schools.
If I thought it was murder I would definitely be doing what I could to make murder happen less often. And I know this because when I was a theist I leaned towards it being more restrictive and still supported government programs.
Again, it comes down to their belief systems, “be fruitful and multiply”, etc., etc.
I’m just repeating what I’ve heard from conservatives I spoke to directly as well as conservatives who spoke out loud on TV and other media.
IMO I don’t think they’re really thinking about government programs when they’re trying to protect unborn life (as they put it). From someone on the outside looking in, it seems more of an emotional decision that they’re making, versus a logical one.
I have no problems with emotional decisions. I have a problem that they inconsistent. If you really really think that there should be more babies and abortion was murder you should also support massive infusions of government cash to protect those babies. Which they never do.
I agree that you heard them say that but just because someone is talking doesn’t mean they are being truthful. Again, I was on the other side of this issue and I remember what I believed. My parents had 5 kids, I have 11 cousins. I have always known that raising kids was difficult and the government should provide help.
Just a clarification, it was many people saying that over multiple decades in multiple instances on multiple media.
I personally have multiple friends who are conservative, from different families.
I point that out just to make the point that I don’t think they all were being untruthful, and IMO I think they all (or vast majority of) were being truthful to their belief system.
Are people telling the truth if there are a lot of them? Are people telling the truth if they say the same thing a decade apart in time? Or are people telling the truth about what they believe when they show a consistent resoned opinion that has all the basic objections to it understood?
I know people who make solid arguments for and against gun control and they all have a well thought out set of reasons and can usually deal with standard objections. I don’t see this at all with the forced birth crowd.
The odds are that some of them at least are.
And my personal impressions after speaking to them over the decades on the issue is that most if not all of them are being truthful, to their belief system.
Don’t mean to be argumentative with you on this one, but I can’t buy into your assertion of that they’re all lying, that 0% of them are being truthful. It’s not what I’ve seen.
I didn’t ask you odds.
That could be said about anyone at any time about anything. To me that’s just hand waving away somebody else’s opinion so you don’t have to deal with it, and it’s not valid.
I can tell you I have some personal friends who are conservatives (as well those are liberal minded), and I’ve heard the same kind of comments from them as I described here, and I believe what they’re saying. Would be strangely weird for all my conservative friends to be coordination lying on something that doesn’t really require lying.
You know, you could go and ask them yourself, instead of just assuming that they’re lying and manipulating. Homo-sapiens are never that straightforward.
I am sorry your friends hate women
Well they’re not close friends, and yeah it pisses me off no end as well. I never understood that logic and belief system.
My guess would be because they don’t want to spend money on other people, or at least other people that are not inside of “their” group.
That and the inefficiency (in their minds) of government programs and how their hard-earned tax money is spent.
Finally as far as maternity leave goes, they don’t want to pay workers and not get work out of them, though I’m not sure that’s a conservative only philosophy, or more like a Capitalism one.
I reject the premise that being pro-life is about a moral conviction regarding the sanctity of life. If that is in fact the moral underpinning that informs the pro-life position, then we would expect to see a similar consistency with regard to all other issues relating to the protection of human life, but we don’t.
What it’s really about is controlling women and maintaining a hierarchy by ensuring that sex without reproductive consequences is impossible.
Pro-lifers tell themselves that it’s about the sanctity of life because by the rules of cognitive dissonance they have to rationalize a way to see themselves as the good guys, but again, all of that is belied by the fact that they don’t seem to believe in the primacy of human life in any other context.
Unfortunately, this kind of cognitive trick is a very human and very common thing. We all do it to one extent or another.
You can disagree with it, but you can’t dictate another person’s belief system, or hand-wave it away.
I dunno they seem pretty capable
Well, they can try, but it doesn’t make it so.