Refusing to vote for an imperfect candidate in order to stop a fascist takeover doesn’t sound very smart. “We can’t have our specialest most perfectest prezzy so lol get fukked every1.”
Neither does ignoring their concerns and saying they should just vote for Biden because he’s not trump.
It’s true, and they should.
But we have literal decades of evidence showing that “what are you going to do, vote Republican ?” Is a bad strategy and if we want engagement we need to actually do things or at least try
And we literally just used that excuse 4 years ago and are going to have the exact two candidates…
And history shows we’ll likely still have to pick between two elderly out of touch white men in another four years.
One will probably be actually evil again, and the other will likely think changing anything is too rash of a decision and things are changing to fast already.
The entire point of running for office is getting people to vote for you, that’s why the party places so much importance on large corporate donations.
But when a moderate candidate can’t get voters energized because they’re too pro business and won’t help Americans, suddenly it’s the Americans fault.
Maybe we should re-evalute if “bringing millions from corporations and billionaires” is really more important in a candidate than “people like this person and want to vote for them”.
We keep running historically unpopular candidates in the general and then getting mad they’re not popular with voters.
Because these corrupt politicians deliver big time for their donors. For recent examples, just look at the massive $2 trillion in tax cuts for the rich and corporations Trump passed. That was pretty much his only legislative accomplishment. And then Biden made those cuts permanent. (Ok, not exactly, he raised them back up a small amount by closing a couple loopholes but not close to what they were pre-trump).
If the established power structure won’t allow outsiders to run, and the donors always get what they want, I ask this question instead:
The problem is there’s too many people hoping for the perfect candidate, who will champion their progressive vision, who will guide us into a utopian future. People want their vote to feel good.
But that’s a pipe dream. That person only exists in fiction. Real politics is messy, because it’s a group endeavor, and you will inevitably have to get your hands dirty if you want your voice heard, or else lose your voice to people who are glad you stayed silent.
That’s a weird way to complain that voters want higher standards than:
I’m not trump!
Telling them they’re wrong clearly isn’t working, so again:
Why keep doing it over and over again?
Why not run a candidate voters like and/or identify with?
Why run geriatrics with decades of political experience if once elected they say that experience is worthless and they won’t try to change congress’s minds on any topic?
Why not elect a young progressive that will at least try and highlight the people fighting against helping the American people?
I honestly don’t understand why the current DNC makes any sense…
Hey, I feel you. But I don’t see what alternative we have. We can wish for something better, but like I once heard an author say, we will often lose on the way to progress, but that doesn’t mean the progress isn’t worth those losses.
But in that quote they’re still trying for progress…
Which is my point. We’d get more votes if we ran people that tried and failed than running people who say they can accomplish things during a campaign, then call voters uneducated in our political process when we complain they haven’t even tried yet.
All we need to do is make realistic promises in what a candidate can do, and try for things even though we don’t think it’ll work.
Voters hate not trying, but we understand failure.
Nobody’s gonna vote for a guy who says “I’m not going to be able to accomplish anything because we have an undemocratic system owned by big business.” Because that’s what Democratic candidates would have to say if they told the truth.
It’s not an abstract concept. It’s a system built by superstitious, drug-addled racists to maintain control in the hands of a select cadre of people. And it’s done that very well for almost 250 years. It’s broken and won’t ever allow them to actually get shit done. Because it’s designed to prevent that.
Exactly. Politics sucks. It always has and always will. Our system of government sucks and can’t be changed. The only thing we get to choose from in the voting booth is “Bad” or “Worse.”
The sooner kids realize this the more they’ll be willing to participate in the fucked up system we’re stuck with.
To be fair the specific US system of democracy is a lot shittier than most other Western systems of democracy. There is a lot of reform that can and should be done on it.
The issue is that Gen Z has clocked onto “to what end?” The GOP is going to run a fascist in every presidential election for at least the next decade, maybe until the party collapses. This is the second election in a row where Gen Z has had to “suck it up because democracy is at stake.” They’re not idiots, they have a strong suspicion that they’ll be told to suck it up again in the election after. Is it any surprise that they’re not interested in a system that has told them to shut up and do as they’re told?
Its especially rough to ask Gen Z to vote for the guy who amped up our oil production to record levels. We cant afford to wait 4 more years on climate and Biden doesn’t give enough of a shit about the climate. He was utterly inadequate to the moment 4 years ago, and he hasn’t gotten better. I’ll still vote for him but centrists you’ve fucked us, thanks.
So do Republicans, and there’s still about a 50-50 split between in terms of voting power. It appears the median American voter has been moving right, as horrifying as that thought is.
Biden is the most progressive US president in modern history. Maybe still not as progressive as you’d like, but nevertheless Democrats are slowly moving to the left, not right.
This is the thing with people who are too impatient for incremental progress. Progressives are, by definition, more progressive than the average. So when everyone else is not keeping pace with their ever-evolving standards they think those people are running backwards. And then they call for burning down the whole system because they want their cake now or else no one can have any ever.
They truly can’t see how far things have actually come. Anyone who says the Democrats keep moving further right has no idea what the 20th century was like.
I walked into that one. Meant to say live with parents. And I did mean work just to buy fun stuff. It’s different for a lot of young adults but I think most of their paychecks go towards recreation instead of necessities.
Okay, thank you for clarifying. I remember being young and having less responsibilities, I made significantly less money than I do now but nearly everything I made went towards recreation aside from my cell phone bill and saving for a car. I didn’t actually start building a real savings till I was in my early 20’s when I finally made enough to move out.
Anecdotal, I know, But I think it’s important to keep in perspective that young adults are new to spending and saving, and because they’re young and have no experience, we don’t yet trust them with big responsibilities, so they get entry level, low paying jobs to start out with. They might not get savings options for retirement, and barely make enough to bother with it, honestly.
But being new to making money at that age, part of that process is learning to spend and save responsibly. That usually means a few years of just recreational spending and maybe a few minimal bills before reality sets in and they take on more responsibility. I don’t think that’s a bad thing, a lot of that recreational money from younger people props up all kinds of industries.
Would it be great if we all saved from a young age, Absolutely! The sooner the better. But at that age, young adults still gotta grow up a little bit before they really think about that stuff. And personally, I think they should take that extra freedom and lack of responsibility and spend it with their friends, before life and other responsibilities get in the way.
Nothing against their spending habits. I think it’s good for your early experiences with working, usually poor, get offset by the fact more of that income is disposable. As you get older though you’ll see less and less disposable income (as a percentage) and you pay greater attention how politics can affect your standard of living.
Refusing to vote for an imperfect candidate in order to stop a fascist takeover doesn’t sound very smart. “We can’t have our specialest most perfectest prezzy so lol get fukked every1.”
Neither does ignoring their concerns and saying they should just vote for Biden because he’s not trump.
It’s true, and they should.
But we have literal decades of evidence showing that “what are you going to do, vote Republican ?” Is a bad strategy and if we want engagement we need to actually do things or at least try
Think of it this way
By the next election one choice isn’t eligible anymore, and the second will likely be so buried under court cases he won’t be able to.
So it’s more of a “finish what was started” and hopefully by the next election we’ll finally have some new people to worry about.
4 years is a long time…
And we literally just used that excuse 4 years ago and are going to have the exact two candidates…
And history shows we’ll likely still have to pick between two elderly out of touch white men in another four years.
One will probably be actually evil again, and the other will likely think changing anything is too rash of a decision and things are changing to fast already.
The entire point of running for office is getting people to vote for you, that’s why the party places so much importance on large corporate donations.
But when a moderate candidate can’t get voters energized because they’re too pro business and won’t help Americans, suddenly it’s the Americans fault.
Maybe we should re-evalute if “bringing millions from corporations and billionaires” is really more important in a candidate than “people like this person and want to vote for them”.
We keep running historically unpopular candidates in the general and then getting mad they’re not popular with voters.
Why keep doing it over and over again?
Because these corrupt politicians deliver big time for their donors. For recent examples, just look at the massive $2 trillion in tax cuts for the rich and corporations Trump passed. That was pretty much his only legislative accomplishment. And then Biden made those cuts permanent. (Ok, not exactly, he raised them back up a small amount by closing a couple loopholes but not close to what they were pre-trump).
If the established power structure won’t allow outsiders to run, and the donors always get what they want, I ask this question instead:
Why would things ever change from here?
kinda hoping for buried in more than just court cases…
The problem is there’s too many people hoping for the perfect candidate, who will champion their progressive vision, who will guide us into a utopian future. People want their vote to feel good.
But that’s a pipe dream. That person only exists in fiction. Real politics is messy, because it’s a group endeavor, and you will inevitably have to get your hands dirty if you want your voice heard, or else lose your voice to people who are glad you stayed silent.
That’s a weird way to complain that voters want higher standards than:
Telling them they’re wrong clearly isn’t working, so again:
Why not run a candidate voters like and/or identify with?
Why run geriatrics with decades of political experience if once elected they say that experience is worthless and they won’t try to change congress’s minds on any topic?
Why not elect a young progressive that will at least try and highlight the people fighting against helping the American people?
I honestly don’t understand why the current DNC makes any sense…
Hey, I feel you. But I don’t see what alternative we have. We can wish for something better, but like I once heard an author say, we will often lose on the way to progress, but that doesn’t mean the progress isn’t worth those losses.
Yeah, sure.
But in that quote they’re still trying for progress…
Which is my point. We’d get more votes if we ran people that tried and failed than running people who say they can accomplish things during a campaign, then call voters uneducated in our political process when we complain they haven’t even tried yet.
All we need to do is make realistic promises in what a candidate can do, and try for things even though we don’t think it’ll work.
Voters hate not trying, but we understand failure.
Nobody’s gonna vote for a guy who says “I’m not going to be able to accomplish anything because we have an undemocratic system owned by big business.” Because that’s what Democratic candidates would have to say if they told the truth.
The party and a lot of politicians are…
But not the system as some abstract concept.
They’d just have to be willing to hold everyone accountable regardless of party.
If a Dem keeps voting against the platform or even worse preventing a vote behind the scenes, put em.on fucking blast.
Let the whole country know, shit isn’t being accomplished by these people.
It’s not an abstract concept. It’s a system built by superstitious, drug-addled racists to maintain control in the hands of a select cadre of people. And it’s done that very well for almost 250 years. It’s broken and won’t ever allow them to actually get shit done. Because it’s designed to prevent that.
Exactly. Politics sucks. It always has and always will. Our system of government sucks and can’t be changed. The only thing we get to choose from in the voting booth is “Bad” or “Worse.”
The sooner kids realize this the more they’ll be willing to participate in the fucked up system we’re stuck with.
To be fair the specific US system of democracy is a lot shittier than most other Western systems of democracy. There is a lot of reform that can and should be done on it.
The issue is that Gen Z has clocked onto “to what end?” The GOP is going to run a fascist in every presidential election for at least the next decade, maybe until the party collapses. This is the second election in a row where Gen Z has had to “suck it up because democracy is at stake.” They’re not idiots, they have a strong suspicion that they’ll be told to suck it up again in the election after. Is it any surprise that they’re not interested in a system that has told them to shut up and do as they’re told?
Its especially rough to ask Gen Z to vote for the guy who amped up our oil production to record levels. We cant afford to wait 4 more years on climate and Biden doesn’t give enough of a shit about the climate. He was utterly inadequate to the moment 4 years ago, and he hasn’t gotten better. I’ll still vote for him but centrists you’ve fucked us, thanks.
Yes it is because there is an alternative… And that alternative isn’t a good one.
The problem is, I’m almost 40 and have been hearing this my whole life. And the Democrats keep moving further right.
That’s not true at all. Quite the contrary in fact.
So do Republicans, and there’s still about a 50-50 split between in terms of voting power. It appears the median American voter has been moving right, as horrifying as that thought is.
Biden is the most progressive US president in modern history. Maybe still not as progressive as you’d like, but nevertheless Democrats are slowly moving to the left, not right.
This is the thing with people who are too impatient for incremental progress. Progressives are, by definition, more progressive than the average. So when everyone else is not keeping pace with their ever-evolving standards they think those people are running backwards. And then they call for burning down the whole system because they want their cake now or else no one can have any ever.
They truly can’t see how far things have actually come. Anyone who says the Democrats keep moving further right has no idea what the 20th century was like.
what is considered left is moving left much faster than the policy.
It’s easy to not give a F when you live at home and work just to buy fun stuff for yourself.
So you mean everyone? Who doesn’t live at home and doesn’t buy fun stuff for themselves?
I walked into that one. Meant to say live with parents. And I did mean work just to buy fun stuff. It’s different for a lot of young adults but I think most of their paychecks go towards recreation instead of necessities.
Okay, thank you for clarifying. I remember being young and having less responsibilities, I made significantly less money than I do now but nearly everything I made went towards recreation aside from my cell phone bill and saving for a car. I didn’t actually start building a real savings till I was in my early 20’s when I finally made enough to move out.
Anecdotal, I know, But I think it’s important to keep in perspective that young adults are new to spending and saving, and because they’re young and have no experience, we don’t yet trust them with big responsibilities, so they get entry level, low paying jobs to start out with. They might not get savings options for retirement, and barely make enough to bother with it, honestly.
But being new to making money at that age, part of that process is learning to spend and save responsibly. That usually means a few years of just recreational spending and maybe a few minimal bills before reality sets in and they take on more responsibility. I don’t think that’s a bad thing, a lot of that recreational money from younger people props up all kinds of industries.
Would it be great if we all saved from a young age, Absolutely! The sooner the better. But at that age, young adults still gotta grow up a little bit before they really think about that stuff. And personally, I think they should take that extra freedom and lack of responsibility and spend it with their friends, before life and other responsibilities get in the way.
Nothing against their spending habits. I think it’s good for your early experiences with working, usually poor, get offset by the fact more of that income is disposable. As you get older though you’ll see less and less disposable income (as a percentage) and you pay greater attention how politics can affect your standard of living.