“We should just build a wall around your state and force it to secede. All the LGBT+ and POC should relocate immediately because it’s not safe to live there.”
“What about all the people who can’t afford to move? What about all the people living on tribal land?”
“Oh, them? Hmmm. They should move, too. Again.”
The fact is, right-wing extremism shouldn’t be tolerated anywhere. Putting all the fascists “on an island” doesn’t fix anything because there will always be children and other people who never asked to be there, yet have to suffer.
Diffuse sanctions, with exile being used in extreme cases
But remember that hierarchical systems and states will always devolve into fascism given time, and the number of people calling for fascism would greatly decrease, given a different system
Yes but look at the alternative: a country united under far right rule. We suffered for 4 years of that and are looking at another 4 years of it if the dumbass anti-Biden memes are taken seriously by enough sheeple.
To make it abundantly clear, for most people on earth, and for most of human history, being poor was and is not a blocker to moving. In fact it’s a great enabler. Comfortable middle income people don’t move.
He’s not talking in good faith. I’m married to a first-gen immigrant from Mexico. I can tell you how “they” move. Unless they’re rich out the gate, in which case there’s a completely different process, they save up money for years, ask for money from relatives, live in extreme discomfort, and then eventually are able to move.
Once established, it’s not like “they” can pick up at any time and relocate. Now they’re trapped in three or four jobs working the entire day, with still barely enough money for rent and food.
Eventually, some of “them” might be fortunate enough to be able to afford the massive investment of time and money for residency and maybe even citizenship.
Maybe even some of “them” will fall in love and get married and start a beautiful life together.
But maybe “they” and even their spouse have misfortune. Healthcare can totally collapse you. Maybe “they” and their spouse save up money for years, but it’s never enough. “They” have got PTSD from their prior life experiences, and their spouse develops health problems. Neither of them want these things to happen, but one ends up in and out of psych wards and psychiatrists’ offices, and the other ends up shitting himself for more than five years, finally after thousands and thousands of dollars discovers he has celiac, but has also fucked other things up in the meantime by developing addiction to alcohol and opiods, which are so easy to become addicted to in this society. So their big plans to move to the big city keep falling through. “They” might lie awake at night feeling tremendous guilt about this, on top of everything else, even though it’s not “their” fault.
That’s how “they” move, and that’s how many of “them” might not be able to just fucking relocate like some privileged neckbeard from lemmy.world suggests.
I know many other immigrants and refugees. I know many similar cases.
What did I say for you to badmouth me here, exactly? And why do you keep putting “they” in quotes? I can tell you’re waiting for some big gotcha moment. What is it?
It’s incredible how that decision fucked the country for decades. One of the best examples why “direct democracy” does not guarantee good decisions just because it was the people’s choice.
Ah, okay, so the referendum was just more like a consultation whether brexit should happen, but the badly done legislation came afterwards (which people probably wouldn’t have voted for)?
People were simultaneously told different things by different people on what would happen of the country voted leave. A lot of it obviously false even at the time.
People might have known what they were voting for. But what they were voting for had no basis on what the government would actually do.
Then we had the prime minister who held the referendum resign.
A new prime minister is chosen in a private election amongst members of the conservative party (about 100,000 votes will do it normally but no one actually runs against them). This becomes a theme.
There is legislation passed which essentially puts a clock on the process. If nothing passes we’d just revoke laws and break treaties.
This was meant to scare the EU into giving us what we wanted. The EU was not overly concerned.
The government put some very shoddy legislation together. We got a pretty poor deal from the EU, well we were pretty desperate.
The government couldn’t pass that legislation
We had an election for a new government
The government lost seats and lost their majority
The government then joined with a religious extremist party in Northern Ireland to give them a majority.
The shoddy legislation becomes not only shoddy but also more extreme,
It still can’t pass.
The prime minister is ousted by their own party.
We get a new prime minister.
They still haven’t decided on the legislation but they tell everyone what they want to hear.
We have an election
The government gets a big working majority
The shoddy extreme legislation, which we now know from first hand accounts the prime minister didn’t understand, still can’t pass.
The government literally breaks the law and closes parliament illegally to try and run the clock closer to the point where we take a bonfire to massive ammous of legislation.
The government are then forced back into the house by the courts
Eventually at the last moment a deal is passed. It’s really bad for the UK economy, and the UK in general.
The UK leaves the EU. Northern Ireland doesn’t. Well it sort of does.
COVID and Another 2 prime ministers later and Brexit deals are still being negotiated.
Essentially he EU has everything it needs. It’s protected the interests of bordering nations like the Republic of Ireland and France. The UK has increased friction on trade, labour issues.
The current big issue is that France no longer helps us stop people crossing the channel. That was an EU agreement. So our government, now spends it’s time and energy trying to deport people to Rwanda, breaking the entirely separate European Convention on Human Rights Churchill’s government basically wrote and passed after the second world war.
It’s worth noting that this government has had a vote share of
36.1% pre referendum in 2015
36.9% post referendum in 2017
42.4% post deadlock in 2019 (with the opposition getting 40%)
The conservative party got that lock in 2019 on 55% of the seats with 42.4% of the vote
Since then they’ve rotated people in and out of government to essentially do the bidding of the one who pays the most into their individual campaign funds against each other.
The government refuse to allow an election even while they’re essentially changing constantly.
We haven’t really got democracy in this country. We disenfranchise a lot of people through our electoral system by design. We concentrate power to a minority.
However what went missing after Brexit was the Dublin convention where migrants could be turned back to the first EU country they entered, in this case France.
I think the government tried to negotiate a returns agreement with the french who basically just said “Non!” and that was it. There is a deal where the UK pays France to patrol their coastline and stop migrants however.
I’m sure someone will correct me if I’m wrong about this last part.
Wasn’t my choice. I was 10.
One thing I’ve learned living in a conservative state in the US is that everything is my fault by proxy
I should just be rich enough to move, how hard can it be
I really wish this was a joke but it fucking isnt.
“We should just build a wall around your state and force it to secede. All the LGBT+ and POC should relocate immediately because it’s not safe to live there.”
“What about all the people who can’t afford to move? What about all the people living on tribal land?”
“Oh, them? Hmmm. They should move, too. Again.”
The fact is, right-wing extremism shouldn’t be tolerated anywhere. Putting all the fascists “on an island” doesn’t fix anything because there will always be children and other people who never asked to be there, yet have to suffer.
what if we just put them all on an island and then blew it up immediately
That might work
But there’s millions of them.
Even if we don’t tolerate them, what should we do with them?
Diffuse sanctions, with exile being used in extreme cases
But remember that hierarchical systems and states will always devolve into fascism given time, and the number of people calling for fascism would greatly decrease, given a different system
Yeah, let’s make Texas into a communist heaven!
My friends from Texas would strongly approve
We need more like them. A lot more.
Texas kolhoz. They already do kolhozing(and call it redneck engieneering).
Deport them. IDGAF about the consequences.
POC? Proof of Concept?
People of color
Yes but look at the alternative: a country united under far right rule. We suffered for 4 years of that and are looking at another 4 years of it if the dumbass anti-Biden memes are taken seriously by enough sheeple.
Removed by mod
Just ask daddy for a loan smh
Just so we’re clear, you’re simultaneously too rich to move (like a Guatemalan farmer) and too poor to move (like a IT graduate)?
Is it possible for you to rephrase that comment? Don’t quite understand what you are getting at.
To make it abundantly clear, for most people on earth, and for most of human history, being poor was and is not a blocker to moving. In fact it’s a great enabler. Comfortable middle income people don’t move.
Haha nice trolling bro
Huh. Welcome to “you should have been rich adult” club. I’m not alone in such shit.
How do all those immigrants move, though? Are they all secretly rich? Or are you, in fact, just comfortable enough not to want to move?
Are you comparing fleeing from war and poverty to moving to some other state because you care about abortions being available?
Yes. One is more uncomfortable than the other. I believe you already understand that.
He’s not talking in good faith. I’m married to a first-gen immigrant from Mexico. I can tell you how “they” move. Unless they’re rich out the gate, in which case there’s a completely different process, they save up money for years, ask for money from relatives, live in extreme discomfort, and then eventually are able to move.
Once established, it’s not like “they” can pick up at any time and relocate. Now they’re trapped in three or four jobs working the entire day, with still barely enough money for rent and food.
Eventually, some of “them” might be fortunate enough to be able to afford the massive investment of time and money for residency and maybe even citizenship.
Maybe even some of “them” will fall in love and get married and start a beautiful life together.
But maybe “they” and even their spouse have misfortune. Healthcare can totally collapse you. Maybe “they” and their spouse save up money for years, but it’s never enough. “They” have got PTSD from their prior life experiences, and their spouse develops health problems. Neither of them want these things to happen, but one ends up in and out of psych wards and psychiatrists’ offices, and the other ends up shitting himself for more than five years, finally after thousands and thousands of dollars discovers he has celiac, but has also fucked other things up in the meantime by developing addiction to alcohol and opiods, which are so easy to become addicted to in this society. So their big plans to move to the big city keep falling through. “They” might lie awake at night feeling tremendous guilt about this, on top of everything else, even though it’s not “their” fault.
That’s how “they” move, and that’s how many of “them” might not be able to just fucking relocate like some privileged neckbeard from lemmy.world suggests.
I know many other immigrants and refugees. I know many similar cases.
TL;DR “They” are the same as “us”
What did I say for you to badmouth me here, exactly? And why do you keep putting “they” in quotes? I can tell you’re waiting for some big gotcha moment. What is it?
They don’t move, either. I’m married to a first-gen immigrant. Getting here is a massive undertaking, but then?
And what do you mean, all “those” immigrants?
They move at least once in order to be immigrants, from their home country to the foreign country they now live in.
I mean literally every single immigrant because that’s the definition of an immigrant.
Stop being poor, dang it!
20 minutes into the future: “Poverty comes from poor character”.
Also look up “prosperity gospel”. Clive Barker has nothing on that.
Oh my God that was 8 years ago what the fuck
Time to start the rejoin in only another 10 years or so I think. We’ll be voting on single market membership again before the decade is out I think.
It’s incredible how that decision fucked the country for decades. One of the best examples why “direct democracy” does not guarantee good decisions just because it was the people’s choice.
It wasn’t direct democracy though.
No member of the public ever voted on the legislation.
If the legislation has been put to the public and the referendum bound it to law I think it would have gone differently.
The vote relied people voting for their own version of Brexit vs. the status quo.
I’m not a fan of direct democracy by any means but Brexit isn’t an example of it.
Ah, okay, so the referendum was just more like a consultation whether brexit should happen, but the badly done legislation came afterwards (which people probably wouldn’t have voted for)?
Exactly.
People were simultaneously told different things by different people on what would happen of the country voted leave. A lot of it obviously false even at the time.
People might have known what they were voting for. But what they were voting for had no basis on what the government would actually do.
Then we had the prime minister who held the referendum resign.
A new prime minister is chosen in a private election amongst members of the conservative party (about 100,000 votes will do it normally but no one actually runs against them). This becomes a theme.
There is legislation passed which essentially puts a clock on the process. If nothing passes we’d just revoke laws and break treaties.
This was meant to scare the EU into giving us what we wanted. The EU was not overly concerned.
The government put some very shoddy legislation together. We got a pretty poor deal from the EU, well we were pretty desperate.
The government couldn’t pass that legislation
We had an election for a new government
The government lost seats and lost their majority
The government then joined with a religious extremist party in Northern Ireland to give them a majority.
The shoddy legislation becomes not only shoddy but also more extreme, It still can’t pass.
The prime minister is ousted by their own party.
We get a new prime minister.
They still haven’t decided on the legislation but they tell everyone what they want to hear.
We have an election
The government gets a big working majority
The shoddy extreme legislation, which we now know from first hand accounts the prime minister didn’t understand, still can’t pass.
The government literally breaks the law and closes parliament illegally to try and run the clock closer to the point where we take a bonfire to massive ammous of legislation.
The government are then forced back into the house by the courts
Eventually at the last moment a deal is passed. It’s really bad for the UK economy, and the UK in general.
The UK leaves the EU. Northern Ireland doesn’t. Well it sort of does.
COVID and Another 2 prime ministers later and Brexit deals are still being negotiated.
Essentially he EU has everything it needs. It’s protected the interests of bordering nations like the Republic of Ireland and France. The UK has increased friction on trade, labour issues.
The current big issue is that France no longer helps us stop people crossing the channel. That was an EU agreement. So our government, now spends it’s time and energy trying to deport people to Rwanda, breaking the entirely separate European Convention on Human Rights Churchill’s government basically wrote and passed after the second world war.
It’s worth noting that this government has had a vote share of 36.1% pre referendum in 2015 36.9% post referendum in 2017 42.4% post deadlock in 2019 (with the opposition getting 40%)
The conservative party got that lock in 2019 on 55% of the seats with 42.4% of the vote
Since then they’ve rotated people in and out of government to essentially do the bidding of the one who pays the most into their individual campaign funds against each other.
The government refuse to allow an election even while they’re essentially changing constantly.
We haven’t really got democracy in this country. We disenfranchise a lot of people through our electoral system by design. We concentrate power to a minority.
It’s a mess.
To be fair to the French, they do try to stop the boats. For example: https://www.thelocal.fr/20230902/tighter-french-coast-patrols-in-place-to-stop-channel-migrants
However what went missing after Brexit was the Dublin convention where migrants could be turned back to the first EU country they entered, in this case France.
I think the government tried to negotiate a returns agreement with the french who basically just said “Non!” and that was it. There is a deal where the UK pays France to patrol their coastline and stop migrants however. I’m sure someone will correct me if I’m wrong about this last part.
Okay, but it was only finalized in 2020. That’s probably why it feels like it hasn’t been that long.
“You haven’t had a date since Brexit” was a funny burn I ehard once I remembered how long ago that was.
We are getting old eh?
Just shows that an eight year old iPhone is still reliable today, receives updates and the approved apps work perfectly fine on it!
Vote to rejoin.
I will as soon as the opportunity presents itself.
Every single election.
When I was your age, I was already 15
Congratulations you made everyone feel old
Excuses excuses.
Reee kids get out
I meant this comment more in regards to your lovely voting peers in the country you have to reside in.
Wish you best of luck rejoining the EU!