Somehow the most calm and vegetarian liberal mainstream societies are also the least fascist, and fascism doesn’t grow there. So maybe it just works and your fixes are not required.

Yes absolutely true. Fascism needs specific circumstances to grow. My thinking is that democracy needs prosperity, security and education.

Property: I mean a modest prosperity instead of precarious living like having a job and being able to afford a home and to raise children without working yourself to death and also without both parents having to work full time (or 2-3 jobs) and neglecting the children. Security: Not being at war and not in constant fear about terrorists and evils that besets society on all sides pumped through the media. Education: Media that doesn’t constantly deceive, obscure and manipulate you

Why would you attack their visibility if the problem is their existence and visibility is a feedback allowing to measure it?

I’m not interested in measuring it that way.You can measure it differently. But every time you let crypto fascists speak with their dogwhistles and whatnot they recruit people - depending on the overall material conditions of society too of course. But it is a naive view to think that people are pure or immune to recruitment by fascists. History tells us.

Only if fascists use clever lies, how does one tell between “liberals” and fascists?

Yeah good point. I’d argue that the current spade of fascists are mostly interested in grabbing power. Trump and the new GOP isn’t an ideological fascist party, they just use the mechanisms of fascism to gain power and serve their masters interests. Liberals use other mechanisms to gain power - which are shit too but they do not base inequality

But this explains why e.g. climate activists or pacifists view the current "leftist"parties in the US and EU as kind of right wing extremists. It’s not fascism, but… well.

And also that fascist thinking is exactly … … this. Exclusion of rights given as a dogma.

No, fascist thinking is a belief that inequality based on mythological identity is not just acceptable but morally correct.

What I said is that specific actions do not serve the underlying goal of free speech but the opposite. And it’s not dogma because we have strong psychological and historic evidence for this. It’s also law in many EU countries since fascism last rise.

But I agree that it’s far from ideal. And autonomous anti-fa action against fascist speech shouldn’t be legal either, but it has good arguments going for it. Ideally we do not have the socioeconomic conditions that creates fertile ground for it. You can see I again blame the mainstream establishment for trump even though the act shocked, just shocked and bewildered by all this. This is the core of why liberal societies are bad at combating extreme fascism.

You don’t need that, you can just allow people to not communicate with carriers of views they consider inhumane

I don’t quite understand what you mean here. But like I said, laws like that are not fascist, you could call them authoritarian or statism. But autonomous anti-fa is grass roots not authoritarian / statism.

On an unrelated note: The goal of free speech / that amendment is to allow accountability of those in power and dissenting voices to be heard. So that people can say what is wrong with the country and have a chance to be heard.

The current monopolization of news and social media under the control of a tiny minority of ultra-rich goes completely against the idea of free speech - at best they treat speech as a commodity and bias everything in favor of the most profitable speech (clickbait that leads to endless circular arguments and more ad sales). At worst someone like Elon Musk pushes his own personal uneducated beliefs about society. Quasi-Monopolization violates the 1st amendment imho.

So about your “let your child do some stupid things so they can learn”. That would require at least that they see the consequences of their action, and in this case it’s unimaginable suffering. And how couldl the learn if the media is captured by corporations? So I disagree, they should learn from history or from science. But corporate interest also launched massive anit-science PR campaigns because of climate change.

PS: Oops I wrote way too much lol