It’s just tired old linux elitism rearing its unwashed head again.
They can’t stand it when their bad behavior is called out as part of linux’s abysmal adoption rates, and they refuse to acknowledge the user hostility of the entire ecosystem.
Exactly this. IMO, Linux won’t become widespread until it’s truly easy to use. Despite how they shit on Windows, I could count on one hand how many times I’ve needed to look up an issue I couldn’t solve myself. The same can’t be said for when I tried Ubuntu, which I had more issues with before I could even get it installed.
Windows has gotten a lot better at fixing itself, but even back in the day when it didn’t, I was confident I could find the solution to any problem in a forum somewhere.
With my attempts at linux, maybe 1 in 5 problems had an answer somewhere, and then it was still another 1 in 5 chance that the solution wold work with my distro.
and then it was still another 1 in 5 chance that the solution wold work with my distro.
So basically you copy-paste commands and expect them to work like some magic spells? I think I’ve estimated your level of expertise correctly in another comment.
No but I do fuckdamn expect a certain commonality between how repositories are handled which DOES NOT EXIST in the current ecosystem.
I think I’ve estimated your level of expertise correctly in another comment.
You always underestimated my expertise in each and every one of your comments.
JSYK if you live anywhere in the eastern half of the U.S. it is likely that your packets are going at least partway over a cable I laid with my own hands. You can estimate my expertise any way you want but my employer’s satisfaction with my work outweighs some internet rando’s opinion of a few hundred words.
but I do fuckdamn expect a certain commonality between how repositories are handled which DOES NOT EXIST in the current ecosystem.
Well, combining that and
JSYK if you live anywhere in the eastern half of the U.S. it is likely that your packets are going at least partway over a cable I laid with my own hands. You can estimate my expertise any way you want but my employer’s satisfaction with my work outweighs some internet rando’s opinion of a few hundred words.
that, then I agree that Red Hat and things based on it suck, but I don’t see what does this have to do with “the current ecosystem”, because different distributions handle repositories differently.
The issue is not with Linux not being easy to use. The issue is politics.
Most of the people use their PC for browsing. Throw Linux Mint or Ubuntu on the machine (that’s the hard part for casual users), press firmware install if your wifi is not working (connect Ethernet cable), press update prompt. That’s it.
You press on Firefox, you are on the Internet. THATS IT.
I installed Mint on many old laptops. If you have problems, it’s because you are tinkering around with your system. That’s on you. Many casual users only use their browser.
I installed Mint and Ubuntu on many laptops. Elderly people I installed them for, never had any problems, even after me explicitly asking if they had any problems.
Press power on, press Firefox, press power off.
Rather the community expels assholes saying that everything should change because they like it different.
No they don’t, they let them set up their own distro as an identity adornment.
I’ve switched knowing literally nothing and people have mostly been friendly.
That’s nice, I’ve tried to switch at least nine times now as a seasoned IT admin that has built and administered to a minimum of 50+ linux servers and every time I look for solutions in the community I only get snide ‘go read a manual before I deign to help you’ comments.
The way you think of Arch users is the way I think of nearly all linux users.
That’s nice, I’ve tried to switch at least nine times now as a seasoned IT admin that has built and administered to a minimum of 50+ linux servers
Every time I see such an argument it means that the person using it probably overestimates their expertise. I tried to switch one time and switched. Knowing nothing.
I was 16 and I wasn’t computer-savvy. It was 12 years ago, Linux users on the Web these days love to talk how easier it’s become, in my opinion it’s become harder, but that’s off topic.
Or there may be necessities you can’t fulfill with Linux, but that’s not what you are claiming.
and every time I look for solutions in the community I only get snide ‘go read a manual before I deign to help you’ comments.
Give me a specific example. And of the tone of your question too - a community is not a drop-in replacement for paid support obviously, so if there was something of the “I need” kind, possibly with that “it’s the OS’ problem and not my hands” opinion in the package, those comments would be justified.
If installing linux was just a ‘skill issue’, then why the fuck are you happy about only 4% desktop adoption rates?
And why the fuck is every forum post like this filled with replies like mine about how frustrating it is to get setup?
I was 16 and I wasn’t computer-savvy. It was 12 years ago
Shit son, I have still functioning keyboards older than you.
Give me a specific example. And of the tone of your question too - a community is not a drop-in replacement for paid support
Ok, so I was trying to get a TWAIN emulator working to talk to my all-in-one printer, printing worked fine (after 3 days of tinkering with CUPS because my specific model didn’t have an existing profile and fuck if I know about how to write one myself) but I needed the scanner and I asked in the forum for the particular emulator, I asked in several generic Ubuntu forums (the distro I was trying at the time).
The first reply was a just a link to the product’s manual, which I had already read.
The next two replies were in the vein of 'How stupid of you to try and use TWAIN under linux, use a native device driver (again of which none existed for my device, which was clearly detailed in my original post)
The fourth reply can best be summed up as ‘lol windows problems’.
And then the post was locked as a repeat topic and linked me back to some chucklefuck’s 5 year old post about setting up a scanner with native linux drivers.
That is just one example of multiple dozens of issues I’ve tried at least to get directions towards a solution.
If installing linux was just a ‘skill issue’, then why the fuck are you happy about only 4% desktop adoption rates?
Because it’s an uphill battle against monopolies. PCs mostly come with Windows preinstalled. Users mostly use the OS preinstalled. Considering that, 4% rate means that it’s more usable than MacOS. Just repeating known truths.
And why the fuck is every forum post like this filled with replies like mine about how frustrating it is to get setup?
Well, sometimes it is, and sometimes people expect something reality doesn’t deliver.
Shit son, I have still functioning keyboards older than you.
Yellow card for ageism, ha-ha.
Ok, so I was trying to get a TWAIN emulator working to talk to my all-in-one printer, printing worked fine (after 3 days of tinkering with CUPS because my specific model didn’t have an existing profile and fuck if I know about how to write one myself) but I needed the scanner and I asked in the forum for the particular emulator, I asked in several generic Ubuntu forums (the distro I was trying at the time).
Oh, so a piece of hardware the vendor of which didn’t care about Linux support. How is this an OS problem?
I obviously had that too, but I don’t get why’d you be pissed at Linux and its community if it’s a device driver problem.
That is just one example of multiple dozens of issues I’ve tried at least to get directions towards a solution.
OK, so that community we are talking about sometimes hallucinates when it comes to problems unsolvable. I had that with Windows too.
And not even the most frustrating one.
In your example the problem is with the vendor of the device.
If you had a better product than Windows, for free, everyone would use it. You don’t, and you blame everyone except yourselves.
Yellow card for ageism, ha-ha.
Oh man am I having my first ‘these fucking kids’ moments? I think I am.
Oh, so a piece of hardware the vendor of which didn’t care about Linux support. How is this an OS problem?
Because if I can’t use my tools with one OS, but I can with another, then the problem is with the OS that I cannot. Scanners are common peripherals my dude. Do you think windows would have sold if it didn’t support scanners?
be pissed at Linux and its community if it’s a device driver problem.
I’m pissed at the linux community because their answers were antagonistic, elitist, and useless. You asked for one example, I gave you one example yet the community has responded in the same way each time.
In your example the problem is with the vendor of the device.
Keep thinking that way and waiting for all vendors to start distributing their own linux drivers, see how far you get.
If you had a better product than Windows, for free, everyone would use it. You don’t, and you blame everyone except yourselves.
I’ve already guessed you think that, only you don’t give any arguments supporting your opinion.
Because if I can’t use my tools with one OS, but I can with another, then the problem is with the OS that I cannot.
You’ve yourself said there’s no official driver, so the entirety of the described problem is with the hardware vendor.
Scanners are common peripherals my dude. Do you think windows would have sold if it didn’t support scanners?
Windows doesn’t even support browsers, because nobody ported Vimb to it, yet it sells.
That’s how your opinion looks, some piece of hardware without a Linux driver (drivers for Windows are, of course, made by hardware vendors) not working is somehow Linux’ fault.
I agree it’s a Linux problem, but it’s vendor’s fault. Like if someone drops a turd on your head, it’s their fault and your problem.
That last sentence made me laugh out loud and it’s spot on. The amount of reverse engineering or getting drivers to work anyway that happens on Linux is already mind boggling.
If the vendor doesn’t care, that’s just what it is.
I’ve already guessed you think that, only you don’t give any arguments supporting your opinion
I don’t need to, simple market forces make that clear. If you have a free product that is easily available that outcompetes paid products, the market will shift to the free product. If it does not then it isn’t outcompeting the competition.
Why would you pay for McDonald’s if Smashburger was free?
You’ve yourself said there’s no official driver, so the entirety of the described problem is with the hardware vendor.
How naive. Linux is the unsupported underdog here, and will not get more adoption by whining that vendors aren’t making drivers for it. The only answer is to roll your own. I explicitly stated that this lack of hardware support is one of the things holding back linux from greater adoption, do you disagree with this? If you agree, then you know drivers must be written. If the manufacturer has no interest in doing it, then who will?
Windows doesn’t even support browsers
Are you fucking high? I really don’t even know how to respond to this. I’m starting to think you are just copy pasting ChatGPT output.
but it’s vendor’s fault.
Whining isn’t going to raise your ridiculous OS’s adoption rating, bro.
It’s just tired old linux elitism rearing its unwashed head again.
They can’t stand it when their bad behavior is called out as part of linux’s abysmal adoption rates, and they refuse to acknowledge the user hostility of the entire ecosystem.
Exactly this. IMO, Linux won’t become widespread until it’s truly easy to use. Despite how they shit on Windows, I could count on one hand how many times I’ve needed to look up an issue I couldn’t solve myself. The same can’t be said for when I tried Ubuntu, which I had more issues with before I could even get it installed.
Windows has gotten a lot better at fixing itself, but even back in the day when it didn’t, I was confident I could find the solution to any problem in a forum somewhere.
With my attempts at linux, maybe 1 in 5 problems had an answer somewhere, and then it was still another 1 in 5 chance that the solution wold work with my distro.
So basically you copy-paste commands and expect them to work like some magic spells? I think I’ve estimated your level of expertise correctly in another comment.
No but I do fuckdamn expect a certain commonality between how repositories are handled which DOES NOT EXIST in the current ecosystem.
You always underestimated my expertise in each and every one of your comments.
JSYK if you live anywhere in the eastern half of the U.S. it is likely that your packets are going at least partway over a cable I laid with my own hands. You can estimate my expertise any way you want but my employer’s satisfaction with my work outweighs some internet rando’s opinion of a few hundred words.
Well, combining that and
that, then I agree that Red Hat and things based on it suck, but I don’t see what does this have to do with “the current ecosystem”, because different distributions handle repositories differently.
I’m sure you don’t, which is why your shitty ass OS is sitting at 4% desktop adoption rates.
The issue is not with Linux not being easy to use. The issue is politics.
Most of the people use their PC for browsing. Throw Linux Mint or Ubuntu on the machine (that’s the hard part for casual users), press firmware install if your wifi is not working (connect Ethernet cable), press update prompt. That’s it.
You press on Firefox, you are on the Internet. THATS IT. I installed Mint on many old laptops. If you have problems, it’s because you are tinkering around with your system. That’s on you. Many casual users only use their browser.
I installed Mint and Ubuntu on many laptops. Elderly people I installed them for, never had any problems, even after me explicitly asking if they had any problems. Press power on, press Firefox, press power off.
Glad it works for you, but I have no interest in an OS which considers anything besides using a web browser “tinkering with my system”.
You have the ability to do anything with your system. That includes breaking it. That’s the cost of freedom.
Rather the community expels assholes saying that everything should change because they like it different. People have differing tastes in general.
I’ve switched knowing literally nothing and people have mostly been friendly.
Except for Arch users, but there’s not much sense in coming to their spaces - they are not only hostile, but also not very knowledgeable usually.
No they don’t, they let them set up their own distro as an identity adornment.
That’s nice, I’ve tried to switch at least nine times now as a seasoned IT admin that has built and administered to a minimum of 50+ linux servers and every time I look for solutions in the community I only get snide ‘go read a manual before I deign to help you’ comments.
The way you think of Arch users is the way I think of nearly all linux users.
Every time I see such an argument it means that the person using it probably overestimates their expertise. I tried to switch one time and switched. Knowing nothing.
I was 16 and I wasn’t computer-savvy. It was 12 years ago, Linux users on the Web these days love to talk how easier it’s become, in my opinion it’s become harder, but that’s off topic.
Or there may be necessities you can’t fulfill with Linux, but that’s not what you are claiming.
Give me a specific example. And of the tone of your question too - a community is not a drop-in replacement for paid support obviously, so if there was something of the “I need” kind, possibly with that “it’s the OS’ problem and not my hands” opinion in the package, those comments would be justified.
This is the exact arrogance I speak of.
If installing linux was just a ‘skill issue’, then why the fuck are you happy about only 4% desktop adoption rates?
And why the fuck is every forum post like this filled with replies like mine about how frustrating it is to get setup?
Shit son, I have still functioning keyboards older than you.
Ok, so I was trying to get a TWAIN emulator working to talk to my all-in-one printer, printing worked fine (after 3 days of tinkering with CUPS because my specific model didn’t have an existing profile and fuck if I know about how to write one myself) but I needed the scanner and I asked in the forum for the particular emulator, I asked in several generic Ubuntu forums (the distro I was trying at the time).
The first reply was a just a link to the product’s manual, which I had already read.
The next two replies were in the vein of 'How stupid of you to try and use TWAIN under linux, use a native device driver (again of which none existed for my device, which was clearly detailed in my original post)
The fourth reply can best be summed up as ‘lol windows problems’.
And then the post was locked as a repeat topic and linked me back to some chucklefuck’s 5 year old post about setting up a scanner with native linux drivers.
That is just one example of multiple dozens of issues I’ve tried at least to get directions towards a solution.
And not even the most frustrating one.
Because it’s an uphill battle against monopolies. PCs mostly come with Windows preinstalled. Users mostly use the OS preinstalled. Considering that, 4% rate means that it’s more usable than MacOS. Just repeating known truths.
Well, sometimes it is, and sometimes people expect something reality doesn’t deliver.
Yellow card for ageism, ha-ha.
Oh, so a piece of hardware the vendor of which didn’t care about Linux support. How is this an OS problem?
I obviously had that too, but I don’t get why’d you be pissed at Linux and its community if it’s a device driver problem.
OK, so that community we are talking about sometimes hallucinates when it comes to problems unsolvable. I had that with Windows too.
In your example the problem is with the vendor of the device.
Blah blah blah the same argument.
If you had a better product than Windows, for free, everyone would use it. You don’t, and you blame everyone except yourselves.
Oh man am I having my first ‘these fucking kids’ moments? I think I am.
Because if I can’t use my tools with one OS, but I can with another, then the problem is with the OS that I cannot. Scanners are common peripherals my dude. Do you think windows would have sold if it didn’t support scanners?
I’m pissed at the linux community because their answers were antagonistic, elitist, and useless. You asked for one example, I gave you one example yet the community has responded in the same way each time.
Keep thinking that way and waiting for all vendors to start distributing their own linux drivers, see how far you get.
Yes, the same correct argument.
I’ve already guessed you think that, only you don’t give any arguments supporting your opinion.
You’ve yourself said there’s no official driver, so the entirety of the described problem is with the hardware vendor.
Windows doesn’t even support browsers, because nobody ported Vimb to it, yet it sells.
That’s how your opinion looks, some piece of hardware without a Linux driver (drivers for Windows are, of course, made by hardware vendors) not working is somehow Linux’ fault.
I agree it’s a Linux problem, but it’s vendor’s fault. Like if someone drops a turd on your head, it’s their fault and your problem.
That last sentence made me laugh out loud and it’s spot on. The amount of reverse engineering or getting drivers to work anyway that happens on Linux is already mind boggling.
If the vendor doesn’t care, that’s just what it is.
No it isn’t, I refuted it in my next sentence.
I don’t need to, simple market forces make that clear. If you have a free product that is easily available that outcompetes paid products, the market will shift to the free product. If it does not then it isn’t outcompeting the competition.
Why would you pay for McDonald’s if Smashburger was free?
How naive. Linux is the unsupported underdog here, and will not get more adoption by whining that vendors aren’t making drivers for it. The only answer is to roll your own. I explicitly stated that this lack of hardware support is one of the things holding back linux from greater adoption, do you disagree with this? If you agree, then you know drivers must be written. If the manufacturer has no interest in doing it, then who will?
Are you fucking high? I really don’t even know how to respond to this. I’m starting to think you are just copy pasting ChatGPT output.
Whining isn’t going to raise your ridiculous OS’s adoption rating, bro.