Clearly the race and genre are both only being used in this sentence for bullying purposes. What could very well be just “a random guy” was specifically changed to “a white male” to really attack the race and genre mentioned. If it was another race or genre it would be called racist. The “white males” won’t accept this blatant racism many more years without standing up against it, trust me. But then they will be called racist. They are not racist only while they accept being bullied and accept racism towards them. This hate speech against white males is being completely normalized in america daily. And being used in comments, sentences and now even books in such a “normalized” way that it disgusts me. Just because whites are not a minority, doesn’t mean we can bully and be racist to them. And in this exact sentence, it triggers me so much that the “while male” adjective was used with the clear intent of bullying and image degradation of the mentioned race and genre.
When will we, as humans of all colors, stand up against racism against whites (and especially males) that is strangely being more and more accepted as a normal thing daily?
Edit: ofc I am being hugely downvoted. Society can’t understand that bullying against whites actually exists. She just didn’t need AT ALL to use the race and gender in her post. Minorities and inequalities between genres exist and should (and are) be solved. Women and all other races deserve all the same as white males do. But white males don’t need to be bullied in exchange or used in jokes like this like if they are the modern punching bag of standup comedy.
White dude here. It’s super easy to read something like this without feeling disenfranchised or bullied. Sure we can do better to avoid it, but that should not at all be the main takeaway from this testimonial. Why aren’t you angry at the common propensity for women in places of academic and professional authority being looked down upon and disrespected like this? This is super common.
They could have simply said “post doc” and the story would read the same. Race/gender adds nothing to the story and is unneccesary and like they said if it was any other combo of race/gender it would be seen as racist so why add it?
Sure, I can appreciate that in cases where it feels particularly forced or inorganic. However, to the extent that the tech/software world aligns with academia or leadership, it’s such a common trope that white guys are very predominant in these positions of authority and conduct themselves like this to women constantly. It doesn’t feel inorganic I guess because of that frame of awareness.
So I do agree that mentioning race like this is sure to be received poorly, but I struggle to weigh that aspect of her post in the focused magnitude that others here as significant compared to her treatment.
Exactly. People don’t seem to understand that my comment was refering exclusively to the fact that she added race and gender only for bullying or hate speech pursposes. If it was a women or any other race she wouldn’t add it or would she?
As a white male myself, I know exactly how much it sucks when another white male gets all fragile and in his feelings, because now I gotta stand up and point out that you’re whining about somebody pointing out the bad behavior of a Caucasian dude. My man, our cohort is so incredibly prone to bigoted, self-important, crybully temper tantrums that I can’t open a browser without seeing a white dude whinging about how much it sucks to have to hear about actual harm done by actual white men. Yet I am not oppressed by any of those stories. Neither are you. The original post was not about you.
Look I understand where you’re coming from, and I kinda agree with you. Also speaking as a white male, though, we would rightly declare someone like Candace Owens an internalized racist if she said the same the thing that you just did but about black people. I don’t think it’s fair to raise your arms and say “Well yeah some of the people in my group are problematic, so it’s okay if we behave inappropriately toward the entire group. I personally don’t feel oppressed so why are you mad?”
Like that’s pretty silly right? I’m afraid that the divide in political ideology between young men/women is due to years of white-men-bad rhetoric, pushing these young boys to Tate and Fresh n Fit, and it’s having the opposite effect that we want. We’re no longer educating at a certain point, we’re just shaming.
Unfortunately this seems to be my experience and perspective too. White guys who think this strongly that we’re victimized or disenfranchised make me very suspicious of what the rest of their worldview entails.
Why aren’t you angry at the common propensity for women in places of academic and professional authority being looked down upon and disrespected like this?
Well, I am angry at that. Women and all races deserve equal rights and possibilities. We should keep fighting for that. But white males don’t need to be transformed into comedy punching bags in exchange for women/other races equality. Can we respect everyone INCLUDING white males?
No it doesn’t. Not wanting to be the target of racial or sexual discrimination is a perfectly reasonable thing to ask for. I swear, half the “leftists” on Lemmy are just larping…
One can and should be angry about both. I wouldn’t go so far as to call the person who posted this a racist, but it’s still not a good practice. Taking an example of a stupid thing someone did and directing the criticism at their race isn’t OK for good reason. (Yes, saying “a white male did ____” is directing the criticism at the group, not the individual.) It encourages people to form judgments about white males as opposed to assholes who belittle others, which is who she’s really having trouble with.
The same thing being done to minorities and women is a much bigger problem, but using the same attack in the opposite direction isn’t exactly a good solution.
The race mention is signalling the privilege displayed in the behaviour. We know that all kinds of people can be a bigot, but this ain’t it fam. This stuff hurts both you and me. Men do need help, but that is not this conversation.
If you don’t see that many white men have been so privileged for so long that they act entitled to be shitty towards others (including to other white men) than you must be seriously delusional
When will we, as humans of all colors, stand up against racism against whites (and especially males) that is strangely being more and more accepted as a normal thing daily?
You get 0 ‘progressive points’ for standing up for white males. One of the last socially acceptable punching bags. Look at the proliferation of the ‘dumb dad’ on sitcoms, totally acceptable.
only white men can read an anecdote about a woman being tired of having her own field mansplained to her, and turn it into “…and that’s why this is bigoted against me, actually”. Holy fucking shit dude.
The “white males” won’t accept this blatant racism many more years without standing up against it, trust me.
Ten years. Whiteness as a systemically-perpetuated social construct has only been getting consciously pushed back on for ten years now; and you’re already QQ’ing like you’re facing genocide and dispossession of ‘your’ lands(the same ones you committed 400 years of genocide, slavery, exploitation, dehumanization, and displacement to get). My bloodline has endured 400 years of tyranny perpetuated by bloodlines like yours, and all your little friends; and yet you collectively still draw breath.
I promise you, even if your whole internet-tough-guy, “we will not tolerate this” schtick like you’ve gotten anything more than a metaphorical papercut compared to the manifold atrocities you’ve visited upon the world actually came to pass? You’d still just be proving us right. To you, our freedom, our liberation, looks like a bullet; and you fear that what we would do is the same barbarism you would.
As white males born recently, at least on historical scale, we hold no responsibility for what other white males did back then, and you hold no special moral right to oppress anyone - you weren’t the one oppressed, and we weren’t your oppressors.
It’s equally wrong to do racist things towards black and white people, and it’s equally wrong to be sexist against males or females.
If we want to actually stop racism and sexism, we should stop it from spreading both ways. Otherwise you do nothing but feed into reactionary movements that will start the struggle again, while oppressing people who didn’t deserve, by any means, tp be oppressed.
As white males born recently, at least on historical scale, we hold no responsibility for what other white males did back then
Incorrect. You maintain and perpetuate those systems without even being self-aware enough to realize you are. Even this muleshit argument of yours is a tacit affirmation of the systemic white supremacy that underpins your society. “Just because I tangibly benefit in every fucking facet of my life doesn’t mean I’m responsible for it and you’re being a reverse-racist for trying to get what you and yours are historically owed!”
you weren’t the one oppressed, and we weren’t your oppressors.
Tell it to the white cop that unjustly held me at gunpoint while his Black sellout ride-along just stood there with his thumb up his ass. Tell it to the 61 Cop City protestors in Atlanta facing FEDERAL RICO CHARGES for standing against white supremacy; while not a single Jan 6th rioter’s faced HALF as dire charges. Tell it to your system of prison chattel slavery that tore my family apart and has kept uncles and cousins away from their blood.
feed into reactionary movements that will start the struggle again,
The struggle never fucking ended. The bill is coming due. I pray I live to see it.
“…to be a Negro in this country and to be relatively conscious is to be in a state of rage almost, almost all of the time—and in one’s work. And part of the rage is this: It isn’t only what is happening to you. But it’s what’s happening all around you and all of the time in the face of the most extraordinary and criminal indifference, indifference of most White people in this country, and their ignorance.” --James Baldwin
If you consider me as someone who perpetuates those systems while being unaware of it, you’ll have more luck pointing out the ways in which I do benefit from them rather than blaming me for something I don’t even know of.
If you consider me an unknowing beneficiary who doesn’t actively support those systems, you pick the wrong target. I’m more than willing to deconstruct the systems of racial prejudice, and I point out racism and sexism directed at black people and women. At the same time, if my very existence with certain traits gives me benefits, I can’t do much about it, and then you make nothing but spite.
I’m sorry you and your family had to endure unjust treatment by the authorities. I do not know your situation, and if there was a racial aspect to it, I’m sorry to hear it and I genuinely support initiatives directed at fighting those discrepancies and bringing true justice. In any way, I personally am not the cop who hel you at gunpoint, nor do I support any of that. I do speak out against racial prejudice - in the Internet and real life.
You didn’t quite understand when I said about reactionaries. The bill you’re gonna see is only gonna grow as by directing your hatred at white people, you feed into the rage in response, and guess what that is? White supremacism. And while most reasonable people, me included, will do our best to fight them off, they do grow in numbers. More and more people are tired of people pretending to fight racism while being blind about themselves making same sort of mistakes.
You want equality? Go for equality. You want to stop racism? Stop being racist yourself. There’s a lot of ways you can fight for your rights without becoming bigoted yourself. Your “neverending struggle” in a way you stated it is nothing but fanatical adherence.
I’m real happy for you chief but I’m not reading all that patronizing anglo “maybe later kiddo” setting-timetables garbage. Your cohort’s already wasted enough of my time and patience with that bs, take it somewhere else.
“Dr. King’s policy was, if you are nonviolent, if you suffer, your opponent will see your suffering and will be moved to change his heart. That’s very good. He only made one fallacious assumption. In order for nonviolence to work, your opponent must have a conscience. The United States has none.” – Kwame Ture
Clearly the race and genre are both only being used in this sentence for bullying purposes. What could very well be just “a random guy” was specifically changed to “a white male” to really attack the race and genre mentioned. If it was another race or genre it would be called racist. The “white males” won’t accept this blatant racism many more years without standing up against it, trust me. But then they will be called racist. They are not racist only while they accept being bullied and accept racism towards them. This hate speech against white males is being completely normalized in america daily. And being used in comments, sentences and now even books in such a “normalized” way that it disgusts me. Just because whites are not a minority, doesn’t mean we can bully and be racist to them. And in this exact sentence, it triggers me so much that the “while male” adjective was used with the clear intent of bullying and image degradation of the mentioned race and genre.
When will we, as humans of all colors, stand up against racism against whites (and especially males) that is strangely being more and more accepted as a normal thing daily?
Edit: ofc I am being hugely downvoted. Society can’t understand that bullying against whites actually exists. She just didn’t need AT ALL to use the race and gender in her post. Minorities and inequalities between genres exist and should (and are) be solved. Women and all other races deserve all the same as white males do. But white males don’t need to be bullied in exchange or used in jokes like this like if they are the modern punching bag of standup comedy.
White dude here. It’s super easy to read something like this without feeling disenfranchised or bullied. Sure we can do better to avoid it, but that should not at all be the main takeaway from this testimonial. Why aren’t you angry at the common propensity for women in places of academic and professional authority being looked down upon and disrespected like this? This is super common.
They could have simply said “post doc” and the story would read the same. Race/gender adds nothing to the story and is unneccesary and like they said if it was any other combo of race/gender it would be seen as racist so why add it?
Sure, I can appreciate that in cases where it feels particularly forced or inorganic. However, to the extent that the tech/software world aligns with academia or leadership, it’s such a common trope that white guys are very predominant in these positions of authority and conduct themselves like this to women constantly. It doesn’t feel inorganic I guess because of that frame of awareness.
So I do agree that mentioning race like this is sure to be received poorly, but I struggle to weigh that aspect of her post in the focused magnitude that others here as significant compared to her treatment.
Exactly. People don’t seem to understand that my comment was refering exclusively to the fact that she added race and gender only for bullying or hate speech pursposes. If it was a women or any other race she wouldn’t add it or would she?
As a white male myself, I know exactly how much it sucks when another white male gets all fragile and in his feelings, because now I gotta stand up and point out that you’re whining about somebody pointing out the bad behavior of a Caucasian dude. My man, our cohort is so incredibly prone to bigoted, self-important, crybully temper tantrums that I can’t open a browser without seeing a white dude whinging about how much it sucks to have to hear about actual harm done by actual white men. Yet I am not oppressed by any of those stories. Neither are you. The original post was not about you.
Look I understand where you’re coming from, and I kinda agree with you. Also speaking as a white male, though, we would rightly declare someone like Candace Owens an internalized racist if she said the same the thing that you just did but about black people. I don’t think it’s fair to raise your arms and say “Well yeah some of the people in my group are problematic, so it’s okay if we behave inappropriately toward the entire group. I personally don’t feel oppressed so why are you mad?”
Like that’s pretty silly right? I’m afraid that the divide in political ideology between young men/women is due to years of white-men-bad rhetoric, pushing these young boys to Tate and Fresh n Fit, and it’s having the opposite effect that we want. We’re no longer educating at a certain point, we’re just shaming.
Unfortunately this seems to be my experience and perspective too. White guys who think this strongly that we’re victimized or disenfranchised make me very suspicious of what the rest of their worldview entails.
Well, I am angry at that. Women and all races deserve equal rights and possibilities. We should keep fighting for that. But white males don’t need to be transformed into comedy punching bags in exchange for women/other races equality. Can we respect everyone INCLUDING white males?
This comment has an “all races matter” vibe to it.
No it doesn’t. Not wanting to be the target of racial or sexual discrimination is a perfectly reasonable thing to ask for. I swear, half the “leftists” on Lemmy are just larping…
One can and should be angry about both. I wouldn’t go so far as to call the person who posted this a racist, but it’s still not a good practice. Taking an example of a stupid thing someone did and directing the criticism at their race isn’t OK for good reason. (Yes, saying “a white male did ____” is directing the criticism at the group, not the individual.) It encourages people to form judgments about white males as opposed to assholes who belittle others, which is who she’s really having trouble with.
The same thing being done to minorities and women is a much bigger problem, but using the same attack in the opposite direction isn’t exactly a good solution.
https://slate.com/technology/2014/05/not-all-men-how-discussing-womens-issues-gets-derailed.html
The race mention is signalling the privilege displayed in the behaviour. We know that all kinds of people can be a bigot, but this ain’t it fam. This stuff hurts both you and me. Men do need help, but that is not this conversation.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0896627321004177
Hurt people hurt people.
If you don’t see that many white men have been so privileged for so long that they act entitled to be shitty towards others (including to other white men) than you must be seriously delusional
You get 0 ‘progressive points’ for standing up for white males. One of the last socially acceptable punching bags. Look at the proliferation of the ‘dumb dad’ on sitcoms, totally acceptable.
Won’t someone think of the poor disenfranchised white males.
only white men can read an anecdote about a woman being tired of having her own field mansplained to her, and turn it into “…and that’s why this is bigoted against me, actually”. Holy fucking shit dude.
Ten years. Whiteness as a systemically-perpetuated social construct has only been getting consciously pushed back on for ten years now; and you’re already QQ’ing like you’re facing genocide and dispossession of ‘your’ lands(the same ones you committed 400 years of genocide, slavery, exploitation, dehumanization, and displacement to get). My bloodline has endured 400 years of tyranny perpetuated by bloodlines like yours, and all your little friends; and yet you collectively still draw breath.
I promise you, even if your whole internet-tough-guy, “we will not tolerate this” schtick like you’ve gotten anything more than a metaphorical papercut compared to the manifold atrocities you’ve visited upon the world actually came to pass? You’d still just be proving us right. To you, our freedom, our liberation, looks like a bullet; and you fear that what we would do is the same barbarism you would.
It’s crazy to see this upvoted.
As white males born recently, at least on historical scale, we hold no responsibility for what other white males did back then, and you hold no special moral right to oppress anyone - you weren’t the one oppressed, and we weren’t your oppressors.
It’s equally wrong to do racist things towards black and white people, and it’s equally wrong to be sexist against males or females.
If we want to actually stop racism and sexism, we should stop it from spreading both ways. Otherwise you do nothing but feed into reactionary movements that will start the struggle again, while oppressing people who didn’t deserve, by any means, tp be oppressed.
Incorrect. You maintain and perpetuate those systems without even being self-aware enough to realize you are. Even this muleshit argument of yours is a tacit affirmation of the systemic white supremacy that underpins your society. “Just because I tangibly benefit in every fucking facet of my life doesn’t mean I’m responsible for it and you’re being a reverse-racist for trying to get what you and yours are historically owed!”
Tell it to the white cop that unjustly held me at gunpoint while his Black sellout ride-along just stood there with his thumb up his ass. Tell it to the 61 Cop City protestors in Atlanta facing FEDERAL RICO CHARGES for standing against white supremacy; while not a single Jan 6th rioter’s faced HALF as dire charges. Tell it to your system of prison chattel slavery that tore my family apart and has kept uncles and cousins away from their blood.
The struggle never fucking ended. The bill is coming due. I pray I live to see it.
If you consider me as someone who perpetuates those systems while being unaware of it, you’ll have more luck pointing out the ways in which I do benefit from them rather than blaming me for something I don’t even know of. If you consider me an unknowing beneficiary who doesn’t actively support those systems, you pick the wrong target. I’m more than willing to deconstruct the systems of racial prejudice, and I point out racism and sexism directed at black people and women. At the same time, if my very existence with certain traits gives me benefits, I can’t do much about it, and then you make nothing but spite.
I’m sorry you and your family had to endure unjust treatment by the authorities. I do not know your situation, and if there was a racial aspect to it, I’m sorry to hear it and I genuinely support initiatives directed at fighting those discrepancies and bringing true justice. In any way, I personally am not the cop who hel you at gunpoint, nor do I support any of that. I do speak out against racial prejudice - in the Internet and real life.
You didn’t quite understand when I said about reactionaries. The bill you’re gonna see is only gonna grow as by directing your hatred at white people, you feed into the rage in response, and guess what that is? White supremacism. And while most reasonable people, me included, will do our best to fight them off, they do grow in numbers. More and more people are tired of people pretending to fight racism while being blind about themselves making same sort of mistakes.
You want equality? Go for equality. You want to stop racism? Stop being racist yourself. There’s a lot of ways you can fight for your rights without becoming bigoted yourself. Your “neverending struggle” in a way you stated it is nothing but fanatical adherence.
I’m real happy for you chief but I’m not reading all that patronizing anglo “maybe later kiddo” setting-timetables garbage. Your cohort’s already wasted enough of my time and patience with that bs, take it somewhere else.
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