A rope through the eye of a needle, I think they realised it was a mistranslation.
Edit: Biblical Greek “kámēlos” (camel) written in place of Biblical Greek “kámilos” (anchor rope/mooring cable). Neither are going to thread a needle, so I’m not sure what’s bothering everybody.
A thick rope does not fit through a needle any more than a camel. If I’d said it was a mistranslation of “silk thread” or something, you might have a point, but nobody is trying to defend the rich here.
No, the lie was that the eye of the needle was the name of a gate that was only a little squeeze for a camel. That was around a thousand years later too. The rope was because the Greek word for camel back then was closer to the word for rope, but due to the euphemism being used in other Jewish texts, we knew they ment camel. A big rope also doesn’t fit, but it’s thematic. A camel isn’t, but it’s ridiculous, and that’s the point. The rope isn’t really thought to be intentional, but if someone claims it’s a gate, it is, and I think we know the name of the italian merchant who made it up.
I think there was a common saying “it’d be easier for an elephant to pass through the eye of a needle” to describe something really difficult. Camel was substituted in regions where they had camels but not elephants. Jesus was memeing irl for his local audience.
That’s obviously what it says. No one is saying anything counter to that. A rope doesn’t fit through the eye of a needle and a camel doesn’t fit through the small gate it may have referred to. It’s all the same meaning. We’re just talking about what the literal thing being said was. They all effectively have the same meaning.
It’s easier to argue about something like translation than to think about what it is actually saying. Let alone try to apply it to yourself. Technically, if you live in the US, you’re already “rich” comparatively. No one wants to give up what they have.
Child prison labour? You mean you’re providing shelter for orphans and creating jobs for them too? You’re practically a saint according to supply-side Jesus.
I mean, in the context of the passage it’s pretty fucking clear that it isn’t an easy thing to do. It doesn’t matter if the saying was slightly off, the message is “give away all your possessions in order to follow Christ”.
Possibly also “the eye of a needle” meant a gate in Jerusalem. Regardless, it doesn’t mean what people think it means when they first hear it. Still has the same message, just less stupid.
No, it doesn’t. This is a bullshit lie spread by rich fucks. The words are meant literally - the animal camel through the tiny eye of an actual needle.
It has the same meaning. It was a small gate that a camel couldn’t fit through. It’s just that it may not have meant a literally eye of a needle, just like it may not have meant a literal camel in the previous explanation.
Down voting me for discussing something that is brought up frequently is implying a disagreement with me. I said it’s not my theory because you don’t have a disagreement with me. It’s a piece of trivia people may like to know. It also isn’t some conspiracy to lie about it. It doesn’t change the meaning. It’s just people guessing as to what was meant.
In thousands of years if we no longer have trains, people are going to have to guess about what sidetracked meant. Some people may come to totally different conclusions. Discussing alternative interpretations isn’t bad, especially when no one is arguing with the underlying meaning. Everyone know what was meant and I’ve never seen an argument against it. It’s just some pieces of trivia that it may have been an idiom (that had the same meaning) that was used at the time.
This myth has been pretty thoroughly busted, as has most every other attempt by rich pricks in the last couple thousand years to soften or undermine Jesus’ use of hyperbole.
That does not say it’s busted at all. It only says the citation is often wrong. However, they hyperbole is still identical no matter the translation. Regardless of what the literal translation should be, it says a rich man can’t enter heaven. I don’t know how discussing the literal translation could possibly be used to soften that because it’s pretty clear. I think some people just want a conspiracy where there isn’t one. Literally no one is arguing it doesn’t mean rich men can’t enter heaven.
Yes, people are arguing it doesn’t mean rich men can’t enter heaven. People have been coming up with various interpretations of that Bible passage for that explicit purpose ever since Jesus said it - a couple thousand years - for which we have written records.
The “eye of a needle is a gate in Jerusalem” interpretation was dug up from 11th century writings by televangelists who - believe it or not - used it to argue that you could, in fact, fit a camel through it with great effort.
Yes, people are arguing it doesn’t mean rich men can’t enter heaven.
Who is? I’ve never seen that. I don’t believe that at all. It’s pretty clear what was meant, and this isn’t the only place it’s said.
There weren’t TVs in the 11th century, so no televangelists. I know what you mean by this, but that’s the problem. Language is weird. Terms come and go, and someone from the 11th century wouldn’t know what that means, just as we don’t know exactly what was said by people who wrote the Bible.
I don’t even believe Jesus was a real person. We really don’t have much evidence for that. I sure as hell don’t trust the translation of the King James Bible, which isn’t even the original Hebrew, as to what was said exactly. The meaning is cool, and there’s no arguing what it means, but it could be referring to anything, and idioms come and go and we can only guess what they are.
There weren’t TVs in the 11th century, so no televangelists. I know what you mean by this, but that’s the problem. Language is weird. Terms come and go, and someone from the 11th century wouldn’t know what that means, just as we don’t know exactly what was said by people who wrote the Bible.
You actually didn’t know what they meant by this. They were saying that a televangelist, in the age of television, dug up this interpretation from the 11th century to argue, in the age of television, that the lesson was that it was challenging for the rich to get into heaven but not impossible.
But it does serve the more fundamental point that language is complicated and prone to misinterpretation. And that people will voice confidently incorrect opinions based their misunderstanding.
There’s nothing that irritates me more than when people misinterpret me not because of vague language, but due to poor reading comprehension. Except perhaps when people admire TV villains because of poor media literacy.
why say it after telling a man to sell his possessions and give it to the poor. Jesus literally telling rich people to stop being rich to go to heaven and you think he’s talking about a gate?
Yeah, it was apparently a small gate, and possibly a common saying. We have all kinds of weird idioms, like if you start talking about something off-topic you’re “getting sidetracked.” Why would you be talking about a train?
I didn’t come up with this. It’s a really old explanation.
The “Eye of the Needle” has been claimed to be a gate in Jerusalem, which opened after the main gate was closed at night. A camel could not pass through the smaller gate unless it was stooped and had its baggage removed. The story has been put forth since at least the 11th century and possibly as far back as the 9th century. However, there is no widely accepted evidence for the existence of such a gate.
It seems so unlikely that this is the case. Why would anyone write a metaphor so convoluted about a gate? It’s an attempt to weasel out of the fact that Jesus outright tells rich people to give away all their shit.
It still means that exact same thing. We use weird idioms all the time that make no sense why we’d talk about them that way. Why do we use sidetrack for a tangent when that’s a term used for trains? We do we call “crazy” people “coocoo”, as in a type of bird? Idioms are strange things.
It’s clear what Jesus meant (assuming he said this at all, but I’m not convinced he’s even real), whatever it is that may have been being discussed. No one is arguing that. It doesn’t matter if camel meant rope, whether the eye of the needle was a gate, or if that translation we read in the king James Bible is accurate (it isn’t). It all says the same thing.
It doesn’t necessarily mean the same thing. The camel/gate (unfounded) interpretation has been stretched to note that a camel COULD fit through the gate on its knees, therefore it’s a metaphor about being on your knees (pray) if you are wealthy and you can go through the gate, i.e., you can be rich if you are pious.
A rope through the eye of a needle, I think they realised it was a mistranslation.
Edit: Biblical Greek “kámēlos” (camel) written in place of Biblical Greek “kámilos” (anchor rope/mooring cable). Neither are going to thread a needle, so I’m not sure what’s bothering everybody.
It is an actual camel through the actual eye of a needle. The “rope” interpretation is a lie made in the past few hundred years to protect rich fucks.
A thick rope does not fit through a needle any more than a camel. If I’d said it was a mistranslation of “silk thread” or something, you might have a point, but nobody is trying to defend the rich here.
No, the lie was that the eye of the needle was the name of a gate that was only a little squeeze for a camel. That was around a thousand years later too. The rope was because the Greek word for camel back then was closer to the word for rope, but due to the euphemism being used in other Jewish texts, we knew they ment camel. A big rope also doesn’t fit, but it’s thematic. A camel isn’t, but it’s ridiculous, and that’s the point. The rope isn’t really thought to be intentional, but if someone claims it’s a gate, it is, and I think we know the name of the italian merchant who made it up.
I think there was a common saying “it’d be easier for an elephant to pass through the eye of a needle” to describe something really difficult. Camel was substituted in regions where they had camels but not elephants. Jesus was memeing irl for his local audience.
did you not read the context? He said to enter heaven rich people must sell their riches. Its obvious he’s saying you can’t be rich and faithful.
That’s obviously what it says. No one is saying anything counter to that. A rope doesn’t fit through the eye of a needle and a camel doesn’t fit through the small gate it may have referred to. It’s all the same meaning. We’re just talking about what the literal thing being said was. They all effectively have the same meaning.
It never reffered to a gate, that didn’t exist at the same time. But camels do supposedly fit through said gate, if they get on their knees.
Of course all bullshit to help rich people feel like being wealthy wasn’t a sin if they were “humble” about it.
It’s easier to argue about something like translation than to think about what it is actually saying. Let alone try to apply it to yourself. Technically, if you live in the US, you’re already “rich” comparatively. No one wants to give up what they have.
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Okay but what if I’m, like, really good at exploiting child prison labor?
I can get to heaven then, right? Maybe if I have my child slave prisoners build me a big enough monument?
Child prison labour? You mean you’re providing shelter for orphans and creating jobs for them too? You’re practically a saint according to supply-side Jesus.
Heil (supply side) Jesus!
Everyone’s up in arms because it doesn’t change the meaning at all. The point is its fucking impossible
I mean, in the context of the passage it’s pretty fucking clear that it isn’t an easy thing to do. It doesn’t matter if the saying was slightly off, the message is “give away all your possessions in order to follow Christ”.
Yes, I’m not being combative. A rope doesn’t fit through a needle either.
No, it’s right there in the text. “Sell”, not “give”. You can be rich, you just can’t have stuff.
Checkmate camels
Possibly also “the eye of a needle” meant a gate in Jerusalem. Regardless, it doesn’t mean what people think it means when they first hear it. Still has the same message, just less stupid.
No, it doesn’t. This is a bullshit lie spread by rich fucks. The words are meant literally - the animal camel through the tiny eye of an actual needle.
Not my theory.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eye_of_a_needle
https://www.theguardian.com/notesandqueries/query/0,5753,-25583,00.html
It has the same meaning. It was a small gate that a camel couldn’t fit through. It’s just that it may not have meant a literally eye of a needle, just like it may not have meant a literal camel in the previous explanation.
Are you illiterate? At which point did I say you came up with it? You’re spreading a lie, pure and simple
Down voting me for discussing something that is brought up frequently is implying a disagreement with me. I said it’s not my theory because you don’t have a disagreement with me. It’s a piece of trivia people may like to know. It also isn’t some conspiracy to lie about it. It doesn’t change the meaning. It’s just people guessing as to what was meant.
In thousands of years if we no longer have trains, people are going to have to guess about what sidetracked meant. Some people may come to totally different conclusions. Discussing alternative interpretations isn’t bad, especially when no one is arguing with the underlying meaning. Everyone know what was meant and I’ve never seen an argument against it. It’s just some pieces of trivia that it may have been an idiom (that had the same meaning) that was used at the time.
But I just want to be mad and insult someone!
This myth has been pretty thoroughly busted, as has most every other attempt by rich pricks in the last couple thousand years to soften or undermine Jesus’ use of hyperbole.
That does not say it’s busted at all. It only says the citation is often wrong. However, they hyperbole is still identical no matter the translation. Regardless of what the literal translation should be, it says a rich man can’t enter heaven. I don’t know how discussing the literal translation could possibly be used to soften that because it’s pretty clear. I think some people just want a conspiracy where there isn’t one. Literally no one is arguing it doesn’t mean rich men can’t enter heaven.
Yes, people are arguing it doesn’t mean rich men can’t enter heaven. People have been coming up with various interpretations of that Bible passage for that explicit purpose ever since Jesus said it - a couple thousand years - for which we have written records.
The “eye of a needle is a gate in Jerusalem” interpretation was dug up from 11th century writings by televangelists who - believe it or not - used it to argue that you could, in fact, fit a camel through it with great effort.
Who is? I’ve never seen that. I don’t believe that at all. It’s pretty clear what was meant, and this isn’t the only place it’s said.
There weren’t TVs in the 11th century, so no televangelists. I know what you mean by this, but that’s the problem. Language is weird. Terms come and go, and someone from the 11th century wouldn’t know what that means, just as we don’t know exactly what was said by people who wrote the Bible.
I don’t even believe Jesus was a real person. We really don’t have much evidence for that. I sure as hell don’t trust the translation of the King James Bible, which isn’t even the original Hebrew, as to what was said exactly. The meaning is cool, and there’s no arguing what it means, but it could be referring to anything, and idioms come and go and we can only guess what they are.
You actually didn’t know what they meant by this. They were saying that a televangelist, in the age of television, dug up this interpretation from the 11th century to argue, in the age of television, that the lesson was that it was challenging for the rich to get into heaven but not impossible.
But it does serve the more fundamental point that language is complicated and prone to misinterpretation. And that people will voice confidently incorrect opinions based their misunderstanding.
There’s nothing that irritates me more than when people misinterpret me not because of vague language, but due to poor reading comprehension. Except perhaps when people admire TV villains because of poor media literacy.
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why say it after telling a man to sell his possessions and give it to the poor. Jesus literally telling rich people to stop being rich to go to heaven and you think he’s talking about a gate?
Yeah, it was apparently a small gate, and possibly a common saying. We have all kinds of weird idioms, like if you start talking about something off-topic you’re “getting sidetracked.” Why would you be talking about a train?
I didn’t come up with this. It’s a really old explanation.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eye_of_a_needle
https://www.theguardian.com/notesandqueries/query/0,5753,-25583,00.html
From the article you linked:
It seems so unlikely that this is the case. Why would anyone write a metaphor so convoluted about a gate? It’s an attempt to weasel out of the fact that Jesus outright tells rich people to give away all their shit.
It still means that exact same thing. We use weird idioms all the time that make no sense why we’d talk about them that way. Why do we use sidetrack for a tangent when that’s a term used for trains? We do we call “crazy” people “coocoo”, as in a type of bird? Idioms are strange things.
It’s clear what Jesus meant (assuming he said this at all, but I’m not convinced he’s even real), whatever it is that may have been being discussed. No one is arguing that. It doesn’t matter if camel meant rope, whether the eye of the needle was a gate, or if that translation we read in the king James Bible is accurate (it isn’t). It all says the same thing.
It doesn’t necessarily mean the same thing. The camel/gate (unfounded) interpretation has been stretched to note that a camel COULD fit through the gate on its knees, therefore it’s a metaphor about being on your knees (pray) if you are wealthy and you can go through the gate, i.e., you can be rich if you are pious.
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