Yes because the security of barcodes and screenshotted tickets were such a huge problem before.
I think what you just described is actually a problem. Friends of my parents were visiting somewhere, bought tickets to a show from a reseller, met up with the seller (normal looking guy, no red flags, gave some plausible story why he was selling) and paid cash for printed out tickets with barcodes. Printouts looked legit, dates on the printouts were correct, etc. Went to the doors, tried to scan their tickets, got told that unfortunately they’d just been scammed. The impression they get from the box office worker is that this sort of bad news is something they’ve had to deliver frequently. Anecdotal, but I doubt those friends of my parents were the only ones to get scammed in this way. TicketMaster still sucks as an organization but the extra security of rotating barcodes does serve a legitimate security purpose, just like the rotating security codes generated by an authenticator app.
Airlines have recently been having problems with stowaways using screenshots of boarding pass barcodes or QR codes too. Such stowaways should get caught before departure by passenger headcounts or boarding ID checks, but clearly there are gaps or breakdowns in these procedures because some of these stowaways are getting caught at the destination. Others may have successfully flown for free. If it keeps happening I bet we’ll see rotating barcodes come to mobile boarding passes too, if that hasn’t already happened.
Oh yes, I don’t mean to absolve them of any blame. They treated it as an expensive lesson, which is probably the best way for them to process it.
Also while TicketMaster is going to sell this as being an “enhanced security” thing, it’s pretty obvious that increased security is only a side benefit for them. Their angle in this is getting more control over the tickets they sell. As long as there are many people who want to go than can physically fit in a venue, there will be a reselling market for event tickets. TicketMaster wants to take a cut of these downstream transactions.
While the security of rotating barcodes does hinder outright scams, mobile wallets normally allow wallet users to transfer items like tickets to another user if the ticket issuer allows it. TicketMaster does not allow this for their tickets, of course, because it could allow someone to resell tickets while cutting TicketMaster out of the transaction. Currently TM allows transfers using their app, but I’m sure they monitor usage of the feature and clamp down on anyone transferring many tickets. In other words if you try to resell in bulk without using TicketMaster’s own platform (where they get to take a cut), they drop the hammer on you.
I’ve got season tickets and I can’t use them, or I bought concert tickets and have a surgery now.
There’s valid reasons to resell tickets, obviously scalping is different though, that’s doing it for profit. Unless I’m mistaken some places have laws for reselling tickets for more than the price in the ticket, so you can’t even scalp, you can only resell regardless.
How close up to door time should you be able to return it so they have a chance to resell it? 24-48 hours would be fine I think, but what if you’re out of that time frame? Thats why reselling exists.
If you couldn’t make a show, you called it in and they’d try to resell your ticket; if they succeed, you we’re refunded. So there was no “due date/time” but the sooner you asked them to resell, the better your odds.
The entire scalping/resale market arguably shouldn’t exist, instead tickets should be refundable within reason, at which point the organiser can issue and sell new tickets.
I had to think about this for a minute, but this is exactly the way to handle it. Don’t allow direct transfers at all. You don’t get to pick who gets your tickets (and therefore scalping can’t exist.). But you still can refund your tickets (maybe with a SMALL fee) up to a couple hours before the event. I hope we don’t need legislation to say they have to be sold for the same price they were originally offered for. We don’t want an incentive for Ticketmaster to steal people’s tickets when a venue sells out.
Over here we use bar codes and QR codes exclusively and they deliver them through whatever method you want — PDF or image in email, text message, download PDF, you can even take a screenshot of the web page after you’re done paying if you want.
Which I’ve done many times (the screenshot thing) esp for things like movie tickets where I don’t bother with creating an account because I don’t go that often. I look up the movie or event, pick the seats, pay, take a screenshot of the QR code, send it to whoever’s going on Whatsapp, done.
I’m not sure I understand what the problem is. The venue already got their money. Either someone will show up to redeem the seat or they won’t, they don’t care either way. And it’s trivial to make sure the codes can’t be faked and that only the first scanned code gets in.
The fact there’s no way to check you’re not getting scammed has actually led to an almost total disappearance of scalping. The only resales happen only through friends or friend of a friend sort of thing.
Every once in a while there’s some organizer who thinks they’re smart and issue paper tickets and those are pretty much the only times you see tickets scalped online or outside the venue the night of the concert.
Season ticket holders resell their tickets all the time for stuff like hockey games they can’t make it too. As you said it’s paper, there isn’t anything stopping them from copying and selling it or emailing multiple people.
This is why reselling places exist, it creates a history for the seller so you know you aren’t getting scammed.
There is still valid reasons to resell tickets, most are non-returnable, so if the person can’t go anymore, why shouldn’t they try and recoup the cost? Sure “scalping” is gone, but not reselling tickets.
Scalping is usually used to refer to the specific act of reselling for profit, what definition are you using here?
I’m using scalping with the obvious definition of gouging profit.
I’m saying scalping is enabled by making tickets hard to counterfeit. You can’t criminalize the act of reselling itself but you can deter it by making it inherently untrustworthy. Reselling should be possible, but it needs to stop short of getting out of hand.
When you create a trustworthy ticket resell market you’re basically creating a hotbed of scalping. If people can reliably find clients for ever-increasing ticket prices, then ticket prices will keep going up. That’s exactly what Ticket Nation & friends have done, and they profit by taking a fat percentage.
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I think what you just described is actually a problem. Friends of my parents were visiting somewhere, bought tickets to a show from a reseller, met up with the seller (normal looking guy, no red flags, gave some plausible story why he was selling) and paid cash for printed out tickets with barcodes. Printouts looked legit, dates on the printouts were correct, etc. Went to the doors, tried to scan their tickets, got told that unfortunately they’d just been scammed. The impression they get from the box office worker is that this sort of bad news is something they’ve had to deliver frequently. Anecdotal, but I doubt those friends of my parents were the only ones to get scammed in this way. TicketMaster still sucks as an organization but the extra security of rotating barcodes does serve a legitimate security purpose, just like the rotating security codes generated by an authenticator app.
Airlines have recently been having problems with stowaways using screenshots of boarding pass barcodes or QR codes too. Such stowaways should get caught before departure by passenger headcounts or boarding ID checks, but clearly there are gaps or breakdowns in these procedures because some of these stowaways are getting caught at the destination. Others may have successfully flown for free. If it keeps happening I bet we’ll see rotating barcodes come to mobile boarding passes too, if that hasn’t already happened.
I mean, that’s sorta on them for buying from a scalper-at-best
(Still, fuck Ticketmaster)
Oh yes, I don’t mean to absolve them of any blame. They treated it as an expensive lesson, which is probably the best way for them to process it.
Also while TicketMaster is going to sell this as being an “enhanced security” thing, it’s pretty obvious that increased security is only a side benefit for them. Their angle in this is getting more control over the tickets they sell. As long as there are many people who want to go than can physically fit in a venue, there will be a reselling market for event tickets. TicketMaster wants to take a cut of these downstream transactions.
While the security of rotating barcodes does hinder outright scams, mobile wallets normally allow wallet users to transfer items like tickets to another user if the ticket issuer allows it. TicketMaster does not allow this for their tickets, of course, because it could allow someone to resell tickets while cutting TicketMaster out of the transaction. Currently TM allows transfers using their app, but I’m sure they monitor usage of the feature and clamp down on anyone transferring many tickets. In other words if you try to resell in bulk without using TicketMaster’s own platform (where they get to take a cut), they drop the hammer on you.
Is it not where you are? Here it’s very questionable to buy online tickets as the person could sell them multiple times.
If it’s coming from Ticketmaster I get it, but don’t they resell tickets themselves as well?
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I’ve got season tickets and I can’t use them, or I bought concert tickets and have a surgery now.
There’s valid reasons to resell tickets, obviously scalping is different though, that’s doing it for profit. Unless I’m mistaken some places have laws for reselling tickets for more than the price in the ticket, so you can’t even scalp, you can only resell regardless.
How close up to door time should you be able to return it so they have a chance to resell it? 24-48 hours would be fine I think, but what if you’re out of that time frame? Thats why reselling exists.
I lived in a small town with a small theatre.
If you couldn’t make a show, you called it in and they’d try to resell your ticket; if they succeed, you we’re refunded. So there was no “due date/time” but the sooner you asked them to resell, the better your odds.
I had to think about this for a minute, but this is exactly the way to handle it. Don’t allow direct transfers at all. You don’t get to pick who gets your tickets (and therefore scalping can’t exist.). But you still can refund your tickets (maybe with a SMALL fee) up to a couple hours before the event. I hope we don’t need legislation to say they have to be sold for the same price they were originally offered for. We don’t want an incentive for Ticketmaster to steal people’s tickets when a venue sells out.
Over here we use bar codes and QR codes exclusively and they deliver them through whatever method you want — PDF or image in email, text message, download PDF, you can even take a screenshot of the web page after you’re done paying if you want.
Which I’ve done many times (the screenshot thing) esp for things like movie tickets where I don’t bother with creating an account because I don’t go that often. I look up the movie or event, pick the seats, pay, take a screenshot of the QR code, send it to whoever’s going on Whatsapp, done.
I’m not sure I understand what the problem is. The venue already got their money. Either someone will show up to redeem the seat or they won’t, they don’t care either way. And it’s trivial to make sure the codes can’t be faked and that only the first scanned code gets in.
The fact there’s no way to check you’re not getting scammed has actually led to an almost total disappearance of scalping. The only resales happen only through friends or friend of a friend sort of thing.
Every once in a while there’s some organizer who thinks they’re smart and issue paper tickets and those are pretty much the only times you see tickets scalped online or outside the venue the night of the concert.
Season ticket holders resell their tickets all the time for stuff like hockey games they can’t make it too. As you said it’s paper, there isn’t anything stopping them from copying and selling it or emailing multiple people.
This is why reselling places exist, it creates a history for the seller so you know you aren’t getting scammed.
There is still valid reasons to resell tickets, most are non-returnable, so if the person can’t go anymore, why shouldn’t they try and recoup the cost? Sure “scalping” is gone, but not reselling tickets.
Scalping is usually used to refer to the specific act of reselling for profit, what definition are you using here?
Every sporting event I’ve been to in the past few years is exclusively digital tickets. Even the local amateur women’s soccer team.
I’m using scalping with the obvious definition of gouging profit.
I’m saying scalping is enabled by making tickets hard to counterfeit. You can’t criminalize the act of reselling itself but you can deter it by making it inherently untrustworthy. Reselling should be possible, but it needs to stop short of getting out of hand.
When you create a trustworthy ticket resell market you’re basically creating a hotbed of scalping. If people can reliably find clients for ever-increasing ticket prices, then ticket prices will keep going up. That’s exactly what Ticket Nation & friends have done, and they profit by taking a fat percentage.