The Vermont Senator, one of America’s highest-profile Jewish lawmakers, said the Israeli leader was head of an ‘extremist and racist government’ and that the US campus protests against the Gaza war are ‘not antisemitic’
Nope, the actual reasonable way would be not simplifying your dissent to a point where it’s idiotic.
In a situation with two insane sides trying to kill the other it is not enough to disagree with one side. You also need to clearly distance yourself from the other madmen that agree with you, but for the completely wrong reason.
So yes, there are indeed wrong kind of Jews: Those who criticize Israel from a distance but are unable to distance themselves from actual anti-semites, often -even worse- using the same media channels to amplify their message, are indeed wrong.
Just like criticising Hamas but actually just repeating Israeli propaganda alongside idiots arguing for are Palestinian genocide are wrong.
You and your black-and-white arguments are a part of the problem and not the solution. This isn’t a team sport. Both sides in that conflict are wrong. And by pretending otherwise you are discrediting valid opinions as well as actually helping propaganda bullshit like Netanyahu’s… because it’s much easier to pretend that all criticism of Israel is anti-semitic when those critics constantly stand right beside actual anti-semites and are unable to express an actual nuanced opinion beyond having chosen a side.
Are you saying that Sanders, Jewish Voice for Peace, or Breaking the Silence are actually, truly racist? You talk about not distancing themselves from actual anti-Semites, but why? There’s no evidence I know of (certainly none that they publicly publish) that any of those people/organizations are what you call “indeed wrong kind of Jews”, hating other people because they are Jews, or wanting Israel destroyed. If you can provide proof of your argument about them standing “right beside” actual anti-Semites please do so.
This isn’t a team sport. Both sides in that conflict are wrong
I don’t support Hamas and it makes no sense/is unfair that you’d jump to the conclusion that I do. You shouldn’t require an explicit disclaimer attached to every criticism of pro-Israeli propaganda or policy, and if it’s not there then assume support of Hamas or other racists. You talk about nuance but make no attempt to check for it before attacking. If you’re worried you could ask for people’s beliefs and then form an opinion based on actually expressed support/racism, but you didn’t and I provided nothing to that effect. Arguing as if I had chosen Hamas or anti-Semites as my “team” because I criticize Israel is putting completely unfounded words in my mouth.
There definitely is a side being unjustly punished that isn’t “wrong” - the Palestinian civilians who are getting killed, abused, and starved at a pace greater than any other major 21st century conflict. Even if you could magically prove all of those killed/injured/suffering (most by far women/children/noncombatant men) support Hamas, collective punishment of civilians is a war crime for good reason. The best example is the 14,500 children killed, tens of thousands wounded, and many orphaned or otherwise traumatized who are incapable of being “the wrong side” by virtue of the fact that they are kids.
What valid opinions am I unfairly discrediting, and about what topics? You put that out there as if it’s obvious truth but did not clarify at all. I don’t know how my post could be seen to have addressed any such opinions in the first place, much less done so unfairly. My argument is black-and-white because it talks about Netanyahu’s assertions about criticism as racist, which are pure crap. That’s what this whole thread and my response are about.
No, I’m saying that you with your polemics of “condemned by Israel, the USA, Germany, the UK etc. for being the wrong kind of Jew” are the problem.
Nobody is actually condemning people for being the wrong kind of Jew or having the wrong opinion. That’s just your strawman because -in your “that’s my team, so they are always right!!!”-delusion- you are not able to understand that there are indeed a lot of people on what you perceive as your side who should be condemned for actual well-documented antisemitism.
People like you with a stupid team mentality are the problem, not a solution.
I don’t support Hamas and it makes no sense/is unfair that you’d jump to the conclusion that I do.
It indeed makes sense to jump to that conclusion, when your first instinct is a random and unprompted attack on several countries, justified by a strawman. Because this shows very well that every sense of reality is lost to you and the only thing you can perceive anymore is people who agree with you 100% and those who are wrong.
Arguing as if I had chosen Hamas or anti-Semites as my “team” because I criticize Israel is putting completely unfounded words in my mouth.
That’s absolutely not what I said. You have chosen your team not by criticising Israel but by blindly attacking everyone you even expect to disagree. People like you constantly demonstrate they will defend actual antisemites as long as they agree with your opinion. The next step then is usually falling for Hamas propaganda because it sounds so logical… after all they are on the correct anti-Israel side…
PS: Also very funny to write about “what I call the wrong kind of Jew” when I actually just quoted that term from your poor strawman. Cognitive dissonance must be strong in you.
Have you forgotten what you wrote like 24 hours ago? “So yes, there are indeed wrong kind of Jews” and then you go on to define them by metrics you create. That isn’t just a sardonic repetition of my words as you claim. YOU condemned some people as the wrong kind of Jews for your own reasons and now, a day later, argue “Nobody is actually condemning people for being the wrong kind of Jew or having the wrong opinion.” Make up your mind.
Israel has tried to legislate Breaking the Silence out of existence for years. Search Israeli media even briefly and you’ll find a multitude of articles like, “Yes, anti-Zionism is antisemitism”. Netanyahu famously says criticism of Israel or Zionism = anti-Semitism. I shouldn’t have to prove this is being said to anyone with even a casual acquaintance of Israel’s stated position on the matter.
The USA passed a resolution a few months ago saying anti-Zionism = anti-Semitism, over the protests of Jewish members of Congress, one who talks about Jews he’s represented who protest Israel. He says that saying anti-Zionism = anti-Semitism is “intellectually disingenuous or factually wrong”, yet the resolution still passed. You can look at how they are treating college protests now to see the practical results of equating criticism of Israel with anti-Semitism. Here’s a Jewish Professor talking about how accusations of anti-Semitism are being weaponized against legitimate protests. Here’s a Holocaust survivor talking about how accusations of anti-Semitism are crap (as in they do exist and he gives examples) and they actually get a “tremendously warm reception” at pro-Palestine/ceasefire protests.
Just last month, Germany seized the bank accounts of Pro-Palestinian Jews and demanded all their information. "Independent lawyer Nadija Samour said that this was an unusual request not usually required by the bank, and was “beyond legal.” German authorities have been arresting/hindering/punishing Jews for protesting Israel for months. "We have found ourselves in a Germany where Jews are being persecuted, but this time for “the right reason”, protecting Israel. It’s tragedy coming back as a farce.”
So, I have specific examples to back up my claims, and to prove yours wrong. Strawman that. Also, yet again I repeat that your arguments are based on the assumption that I somehow support anti-Semites because they are also against Israel. And yes, you specifically say I will defend anti-Semites, with your justification being I criticize governments. I’ve never defended anti-Semitism, I can prove the exact opposite if you want, it’s unfounded and unfair, and no matter how often you assert that it won’t become true.
Edit: Your edit even says your leap to put words in my mouth makes sense given my “random and unprompted attack on several countries” as if somehow that was proof I support Hamas. Well, I’ve given you just some of the many examples of proof that said attacks aren’t “random or unprompted” above. Frankly your position that my accusations come from nowhere is evidence that you are arguing from ignorance since many of those examples are well-known and all are freely available.
Give up your flawed argument, adjust your view to fit facts, and next time actually get people’s opinions + the truth of the situation sorted before you launch into attacks.
Nope, the actual reasonable way would be not simplifying your dissent to a point where it’s idiotic.
In a situation with two insane sides trying to kill the other it is not enough to disagree with one side. You also need to clearly distance yourself from the other madmen that agree with you, but for the completely wrong reason.
So yes, there are indeed wrong kind of Jews: Those who criticize Israel from a distance but are unable to distance themselves from actual anti-semites, often -even worse- using the same media channels to amplify their message, are indeed wrong.
Just like criticising Hamas but actually just repeating Israeli propaganda alongside idiots arguing for are Palestinian genocide are wrong.
You and your black-and-white arguments are a part of the problem and not the solution. This isn’t a team sport. Both sides in that conflict are wrong. And by pretending otherwise you are discrediting valid opinions as well as actually helping propaganda bullshit like Netanyahu’s… because it’s much easier to pretend that all criticism of Israel is anti-semitic when those critics constantly stand right beside actual anti-semites and are unable to express an actual nuanced opinion beyond having chosen a side.
Are you saying that Sanders, Jewish Voice for Peace, or Breaking the Silence are actually, truly racist? You talk about not distancing themselves from actual anti-Semites, but why? There’s no evidence I know of (certainly none that they publicly publish) that any of those people/organizations are what you call “indeed wrong kind of Jews”, hating other people because they are Jews, or wanting Israel destroyed. If you can provide proof of your argument about them standing “right beside” actual anti-Semites please do so.
I don’t support Hamas and it makes no sense/is unfair that you’d jump to the conclusion that I do. You shouldn’t require an explicit disclaimer attached to every criticism of pro-Israeli propaganda or policy, and if it’s not there then assume support of Hamas or other racists. You talk about nuance but make no attempt to check for it before attacking. If you’re worried you could ask for people’s beliefs and then form an opinion based on actually expressed support/racism, but you didn’t and I provided nothing to that effect. Arguing as if I had chosen Hamas or anti-Semites as my “team” because I criticize Israel is putting completely unfounded words in my mouth.
There definitely is a side being unjustly punished that isn’t “wrong” - the Palestinian civilians who are getting killed, abused, and starved at a pace greater than any other major 21st century conflict. Even if you could magically prove all of those killed/injured/suffering (most by far women/children/noncombatant men) support Hamas, collective punishment of civilians is a war crime for good reason. The best example is the 14,500 children killed, tens of thousands wounded, and many orphaned or otherwise traumatized who are incapable of being “the wrong side” by virtue of the fact that they are kids.
What valid opinions am I unfairly discrediting, and about what topics? You put that out there as if it’s obvious truth but did not clarify at all. I don’t know how my post could be seen to have addressed any such opinions in the first place, much less done so unfairly. My argument is black-and-white because it talks about Netanyahu’s assertions about criticism as racist, which are pure crap. That’s what this whole thread and my response are about.
No, I’m saying that you with your polemics of “condemned by Israel, the USA, Germany, the UK etc. for being the wrong kind of Jew” are the problem.
Nobody is actually condemning people for being the wrong kind of Jew or having the wrong opinion. That’s just your strawman because -in your “that’s my team, so they are always right!!!”-delusion- you are not able to understand that there are indeed a lot of people on what you perceive as your side who should be condemned for actual well-documented antisemitism.
People like you with a stupid team mentality are the problem, not a solution.
It indeed makes sense to jump to that conclusion, when your first instinct is a random and unprompted attack on several countries, justified by a strawman. Because this shows very well that every sense of reality is lost to you and the only thing you can perceive anymore is people who agree with you 100% and those who are wrong.
That’s absolutely not what I said. You have chosen your team not by criticising Israel but by blindly attacking everyone you even expect to disagree. People like you constantly demonstrate they will defend actual antisemites as long as they agree with your opinion. The next step then is usually falling for Hamas propaganda because it sounds so logical… after all they are on the correct anti-Israel side…
PS: Also very funny to write about “what I call the wrong kind of Jew” when I actually just quoted that term from your poor strawman. Cognitive dissonance must be strong in you.
So, I have specific examples to back up my claims, and to prove yours wrong. Strawman that. Also, yet again I repeat that your arguments are based on the assumption that I somehow support anti-Semites because they are also against Israel. And yes, you specifically say I will defend anti-Semites, with your justification being I criticize governments. I’ve never defended anti-Semitism, I can prove the exact opposite if you want, it’s unfounded and unfair, and no matter how often you assert that it won’t become true.
Edit: Your edit even says your leap to put words in my mouth makes sense given my “random and unprompted attack on several countries” as if somehow that was proof I support Hamas. Well, I’ve given you just some of the many examples of proof that said attacks aren’t “random or unprompted” above. Frankly your position that my accusations come from nowhere is evidence that you are arguing from ignorance since many of those examples are well-known and all are freely available.
Give up your flawed argument, adjust your view to fit facts, and next time actually get people’s opinions + the truth of the situation sorted before you launch into attacks.
No, I remember how I quoted your fucking bullshit.
It’s right there. In your own post for everyone to see. Why are you lying?