A totally proportional reaction to the request to add a few words to the game…
However, I still find that the petition exaggerates
There is a huge problem with the game though. When starting a new farm you are tasked with creating a character, but there are only two gender options to choose from. […] For many trans and non-binary players, the gendered language in the game can feel incredibly disheartening, and invalidating, causing feelings of dysphoria when misgendered while they are playing.
I’m sorry but this is the most mentally fragile shit I’ve heard in a long time. If I was the developer I’d add it in still because it really shouldn’t be that hard, but if people told me they felt gender dysphoria playing my game I’d be inclined to give them a refund and recommend some game dev tutorials.
Since the discussion is about bullying and threatening people because they don’t think people should have autonomy over their gender expression, at worst it’s the second most fragile shit you’ve heard.
The whole thing is phrased the way I phrase acquisition requests at work, everything is true but it’s very much written in a way that exaggerates the severity. No major reasons not to add it since it should be quite simple, but that phrasing is bound to tick people off a little. (Edit bc i just remembered this is about doxxing: no of fucking course that’s not even remotely an appropriate response and I see 0 justification for it, and I feel like it probably wouldve happened even with different phrasing, this isn’t meant to be victim blaming)
Wouldn’t be hard to instead say “hey, i have an issue with the lack of a gender neutral pronoun option, it causes feelings of dysphoria for myself and many others which makes me not want to play the game, would be great if that could be added.” Or even just leave out the dramaticizing adjectives, that might do it on its own.
You’ve pretty much summed up my take on this. Trying to exaggerate the number of people affected doesn’t help when you game things out. At best, it doesn’t negatively affect your chances, and at worse you can peev off people that would otherwise be willing to help.
Apart from the non-binary players, I don’t see a reason why the trans players can’t just play as their chosen gender. The only thing I can think of to break the immersion is having kids, and even then the game doesn’t do much to differentiate adopted vs birth children
Depends how you read the “and”, it is only a statement about those who are “trans AND nonbinary”, not “trans OR nonbinary”. Would be a weird choice of wording though. Not sure how many people would consider themselves in the group of non-binary and not trans, but certainly lots of agender people consider themselves not trans, but those same people I think typically don’t consider themselves non-binary either and typically wouldn’t care that much about pronouns to begin with. Also doubt there are many binary trans people who use pronouns that aren’t the default for their binary gender (ie: women who use he/him or neopronouns. Maybe xenopronouns among furries? But like I feel like a lot of those people mostly do it as a criticism of the institution of gender and don’t actually take them serious?).
Anyways, agreed they just seem to be trying to be over-the-top with the wording, but understandable that someone making a petition would feel pressured to write like that. Would be nice to see body-type and pronouns (in games that use them) be separate settings as default in all games. We’ve been able to name our rival “Dickface” since '96. Doesn’t seem like much to ask for similar control of our own character’s pronouns.
Anyways, agreed they just seem to be trying to be over-the-top with the wording, but understandable that someone making a petition would feel pressured to write like that.
I get why someone might exaggerate the need of their petition, but overall it’s still a bad idea. The best case scenario is that nobody cares about the hyperbole, but at worse you’re alienating people that would otherwise be open to helping.
Not to mention the fact that SDV has been out for 10 years now. It’s not like the person making the petition hasn’t had time to sit down and think this out. Not only that, I’d be surprised if there wasn’t already a mod that already did 99% of what they’re requesting. They could have picked a mod (or written it themselves) and asked for ConcernedApe to work with the mod author to merge it into the game, potentially reducing the work he has to do and thereby making it more likely to happen
Does a male gynecologist need to experience a period to understand that they are uncomfortable? Does a psychologist need to experience mental illness to treat a patient? Does a person need to be world renowned author to identify exaggeration? Do I need to be Trump to know he’s talking shit?
No. But you at least need the ability to conceptualize the possibility of empathy existing if you can’t feel it directly, in order to excel in any of those things (petulant assholery included).
It’s also a requirement to have truly nuanced discussion; I fear you are wasting your time in this discussion and if it’s not clear why, it’s because of a failure of imagination on your part.
So is that a no? It’s a discussion of empathy and you immediately turn it into a debate. Are teenagers often extremely dramatic? Of course! But I don’t understand why we need to immediately discount their feelings or experiences because of it. I’m sure plenty of people who’ve gone on to end their own lives were described as dramatic as well. I just think we need to default to empathy over defending ourselves a little more in the modern world.
I’m getting flashbacks to Hogwarts Legacy when trans people were upset about the character creation in that game for some reason.
My very first character in that game was a witch with a masculine body type (I like pants) with bright-ass turquoise hair. The game has issues, but the character creation was the least of them.
Rowling didn’t create the game, dude. She just gets a cut of the money. You think everyone in the dev team feels that way? Are we just supposed to not get a game set in a beloved universe because the person who owns the IP is a piece of shit?
At this stage it might even be too crazy to say that she’s so rich that the money she’s getting from this game is a drop in the bucket and has no practical negative impact on society. She will have the same influence with or without it, so might as well buy the game.
It’s kinda hard to separate the art from the artist when the art is actually full of racist and classiest themes, and the artist in question is actively being a huge bigot at every given opportunity.
A totally proportional reaction to the request to add a few words to the game…
However, I still find that the petition exaggerates
That’s quite dramatic.
Anti Commercial-AI license
I’m sorry but this is the most mentally fragile shit I’ve heard in a long time. If I was the developer I’d add it in still because it really shouldn’t be that hard, but if people told me they felt gender dysphoria playing my game I’d be inclined to give them a refund and recommend some game dev tutorials.
Since the discussion is about bullying and threatening people because they don’t think people should have autonomy over their gender expression, at worst it’s the second most fragile shit you’ve heard.
Easy to say when you’re not being affected personally.
The whole thing is phrased the way I phrase acquisition requests at work, everything is true but it’s very much written in a way that exaggerates the severity. No major reasons not to add it since it should be quite simple, but that phrasing is bound to tick people off a little. (Edit bc i just remembered this is about doxxing: no of fucking course that’s not even remotely an appropriate response and I see 0 justification for it, and I feel like it probably wouldve happened even with different phrasing, this isn’t meant to be victim blaming)
Wouldn’t be hard to instead say “hey, i have an issue with the lack of a gender neutral pronoun option, it causes feelings of dysphoria for myself and many others which makes me not want to play the game, would be great if that could be added.” Or even just leave out the dramaticizing adjectives, that might do it on its own.
You’ve pretty much summed up my take on this. Trying to exaggerate the number of people affected doesn’t help when you game things out. At best, it doesn’t negatively affect your chances, and at worse you can peev off people that would otherwise be willing to help.
Apart from the non-binary players, I don’t see a reason why the trans players can’t just play as their chosen gender. The only thing I can think of to break the immersion is having kids, and even then the game doesn’t do much to differentiate adopted vs birth children
Depends how you read the “and”, it is only a statement about those who are “trans AND nonbinary”, not “trans OR nonbinary”. Would be a weird choice of wording though. Not sure how many people would consider themselves in the group of non-binary and not trans, but certainly lots of agender people consider themselves not trans, but those same people I think typically don’t consider themselves non-binary either and typically wouldn’t care that much about pronouns to begin with. Also doubt there are many binary trans people who use pronouns that aren’t the default for their binary gender (ie: women who use he/him or neopronouns. Maybe xenopronouns among furries? But like I feel like a lot of those people mostly do it as a criticism of the institution of gender and don’t actually take them serious?).
Anyways, agreed they just seem to be trying to be over-the-top with the wording, but understandable that someone making a petition would feel pressured to write like that. Would be nice to see body-type and pronouns (in games that use them) be separate settings as default in all games. We’ve been able to name our rival “Dickface” since '96. Doesn’t seem like much to ask for similar control of our own character’s pronouns.
I get why someone might exaggerate the need of their petition, but overall it’s still a bad idea. The best case scenario is that nobody cares about the hyperbole, but at worse you’re alienating people that would otherwise be open to helping.
Not to mention the fact that SDV has been out for 10 years now. It’s not like the person making the petition hasn’t had time to sit down and think this out. Not only that, I’d be surprised if there wasn’t already a mod that already did 99% of what they’re requesting. They could have picked a mod (or written it themselves) and asked for ConcernedApe to work with the mod author to merge it into the game, potentially reducing the work he has to do and thereby making it more likely to happen
It’s extremely dramatic
Do you have any experience of dysphoria?
Does a male gynecologist need to experience a period to understand that they are uncomfortable? Does a psychologist need to experience mental illness to treat a patient? Does a person need to be world renowned author to identify exaggeration? Do I need to be Trump to know he’s talking shit?
Anti Commercial-AI license
No. But you at least need the ability to conceptualize the possibility of empathy existing if you can’t feel it directly, in order to excel in any of those things (petulant assholery included).
It’s also a requirement to have truly nuanced discussion; I fear you are wasting your time in this discussion and if it’s not clear why, it’s because of a failure of imagination on your part.
“Do I need to be part of a minority to pass judgement on their way of expression?”
So is that a no? It’s a discussion of empathy and you immediately turn it into a debate. Are teenagers often extremely dramatic? Of course! But I don’t understand why we need to immediately discount their feelings or experiences because of it. I’m sure plenty of people who’ve gone on to end their own lives were described as dramatic as well. I just think we need to default to empathy over defending ourselves a little more in the modern world.
Have you checked out their robust modding community?
Relevance?
Clown.
Oh whatever. I genuinely don’t get the point you’re making but go ahead and be a dick
I’m getting flashbacks to Hogwarts Legacy when trans people were upset about the character creation in that game for some reason.
My very first character in that game was a witch with a masculine body type (I like pants) with bright-ass turquoise hair. The game has issues, but the character creation was the least of them.
The reason for the backlash is that it all felt performative when the creator is online calling all trans women rapists, pedophiles and groomers.
The game was just saying, “Don’t think about that- give us money anyways! Just don’t think about where the money is going!”
Rowling didn’t create the game, dude. She just gets a cut of the money. You think everyone in the dev team feels that way? Are we just supposed to not get a game set in a beloved universe because the person who owns the IP is a piece of shit?
At this stage it might even be too crazy to say that she’s so rich that the money she’s getting from this game is a drop in the bucket and has no practical negative impact on society. She will have the same influence with or without it, so might as well buy the game.
It’s kinda hard to separate the art from the artist when the art is actually full of racist and classiest themes, and the artist in question is actively being a huge bigot at every given opportunity.
My point was related to people that like the art, since there’s much less incentive to buy the game if you don’t like the world it’s build from.