• Ð Greıt Þu̇mpkin
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    1547 months ago

    If you want to argue that the answer to Biden being too soft on Israel’s crimes is to let the guy who handed them East Jerusalem, The West Bank, and The Golan Heights on a silver platter get back into power, you’re either a covert Zionist agent, or an unwitting Zionist agent. Either way, you have no business lecturing about the moral course of action in this crisis.

    • @[email protected]
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      307 months ago

      People aren’t upset because Biden isnt trying hard enough to stop Israel. We’re upset because he’s an active participant in what theyre doing. Using executive orders to bypass congress to get them more weapons.

      • Ð Greıt Þu̇mpkin
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        407 months ago

        I’ll be nice and assume you’re just stupid instead of actively trying to support the Zionist cause by letting their biggest supporter back into office.

            • @[email protected]
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              117 months ago

              Oh right because the fascist whose party’s project 2025 proposal secures him as king and destroys democracy isn’t Hitler, the other guy because Israel. Meanwhile, Donny spent most of his propping up and outwardly supporting Bibi telling the world he’s the real friend of Israel. You complain about Zionism but support Fascism so what are you actually trying to accomplish?

                • @[email protected]
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                  17 months ago

                  If anybody could find anything at all written in the 1930s saying it’s a KPD slogan, and not just people decades later calling it “well known” with no source and only in English with no explanation what it was in German, that would be really cool.

          • @[email protected]
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            57 months ago

            It’s the Civ Ghandi manoeuvre: Vote for the right wing until the value wraps around and you win!

            The side effect is sadly that you are the first to fire nukes, but that’s a fair price.

        • @[email protected]
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          197 months ago

          You ignore the other option in current criticisms of Biden. No, I don’t want Trump to win, but it sure would be nice if Biden listened to criticism and stopped his current, weak “I told Netanyahu, ‘Stop this, bub, or I’m going to get really cross with you. Now, listen here, I mean it this time!’” enablement of the genocide Israel is carrying out. He’s apparently able to listen voters on stuff like not banning menthol cigarettes for fear of alienating black voters due to black smokers predominantly smoking menthols, yet when younger and more left-wing voters ask “Could you please stop fast-tracking Israel’s ability to commit genocide so I can vote for you with a clean conscience?” the response is apparently, “Lol, get fucked.”

          If Biden loses, this will be entirely on him. He can cave to pressure from a fraction of the African American population that smokes over something that will actively help kill them, but is seemingly committed to ignoring young voters across demographic groups to enable something that systematically murders innocent people, makes the US complicit in crimes against humanity and offers literally no tangible benefit to the US, but could get him some more of that sweet AIPAC money.

            • @[email protected]
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              107 months ago

              So Biden literally has no agency to change one stance that is overwhelmingly unpopular with young voters, many of whom are threatening not to vote for him over this issue? Exactly, this is entirely on Biden. You can make all the excuses you want, for anyone whose eyes aren’t painted on, it’s obvious what’s going on.

              Young voters turned out in record numbers in the last election, and they favored Biden by far, helping him win. But sure, Biden can turn his back on these voters, he did win by such a comfortable margin last time that he has no reason to be worried. He has nothing to gain by doubling down on his stance on Israel, and everything to lose.

              I’ve seen so many excuses for why voters should feel they personally failed democracy if they don’t vote for Biden over his support for genocide, but not a single one of you have offered a reason why Biden should hold course on his Israeli policy, rather than correcting now, while he still has time. Again, there is zero benefit to the US for him to hold his current position.

                • @[email protected]
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                  77 months ago

                  When an equal or greater number of voters believe he’s doing the right thing, or needs to do more for Israel, and young voters are notoriously unreliable? In terms of political calculus, this is not a clear-cut strategic decision.

                  If young voters don’t turn out for him in similar numbers as they did the last election, he’s likely lost anyway. He’s running a campaign on a knife edge, and alienating a demographic that was essential for his last win, which is a dumb move. Support for Israel tracks heavily with age, which coincidentally, tracks pretty decently with the likelihood to vote Republican, so there’s a good portion of this block that were never going to vote for him to begin with.

                  But if Biden doesn’t change his position on Israel, despite voicing some responsiveness to current protests, he’s still better, and yes, including for the Palestinian people, than Donald Trump. And realistically speaking, it’s one of those two old fucks that’s going to be president.

                  No, it’s just competing on degrees of awfulness. This is like saying you’re going to fall victim to one of two murders; the first one will flay you alive and let you die of infections once they set in, while the second will shoot you 3 times in the face and make sure you’re dead within ten minutes. You’re arguing the first one is better because they prolong the agony, but the outcome is the same either way.

                  • @[email protected]
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                    107 months ago

                    He’s running a campaign on a knife edge, and alienating a demographic that was essential for his last win

                    The pro-Israel moderate vote was also essential for his last win.

          • Ð Greıt Þu̇mpkin
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            347 months ago

            I just love how “leftists” accuse others of not taking fascism seriously enough and then post shit like this when the opportunity to put up actually presents itself.

            When Fascists Vote, Not Voting is Collaboration.

            That’s not a platitude, that’s basic math, and it’s true even under a not absolutely fucked FPTP system like what we’re stuck with right now, let alone with it.

            When fascism is on the ballot, you vote against it or you are a collaborator. End of story. No debate.

            If you need more convincing than just being informed that the other candidate is a fascist running on a platform of doing fascism, you are a collaborator.

            If ten people are at a table and a Nazi can sit down at that table unchallenged, there are eleven Nazis at that table.

            • @[email protected]
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              127 months ago

              When fascism is on the ballot, you vote against it or you are a collaborator. End of story. No debate.

              I’m voting against it. To be clear, that means a vote for Biden.

              Biden should stop supporting genocide, and you should stop pretending that opposition to genocide is support for Trump.

              • Ænima
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                97 months ago

                Look, in past elections we didn’t have to wonder if not voting for a candidate would have lasting implications for the future of this country and the freedom of the world. This election does. I think what has happened, and is continuing to happen, to those in Gaza is gut wrenching. As a father of a 4-year-old, I would be mentally eviscerated if I lost him. I would probably go from “father” to “extremist” in that instance, too.

                It’s hard for me to vote for Biden knowing his support for the state of Israel. I also know I want to be able to vote in the future. I want women to have bodily autonomy. I want marginalized groups to exist and not have their very existence removed from the vernacular. I want the government to remain an agnostic-ish state. I want our allies to stay allies (except for maybe the state of Israel) and our enemies to stay enemies.

                I can also admit to not knowing everything about the geopolitical landscape to know just how much sway Biden may have in his support for the state of Israel. We like to think the president is a king and can snap his fingers to make his will THE will (see all the people thinking Biden can control gas prices, for instance), but that just isn’t so.

                • @[email protected]
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                  27 months ago

                  Look, in past elections we didn’t have to wonder if not voting for a candidate would have lasting implications for the future of this country and the freedom of the world. This election does.

                  I already said I’m voting for Biden. I don’t need to be lectured into doing something I already said I’m gonna do.

                  I can also admit to not knowing everything about the geopolitical landscape to know just how much sway Biden may have in his support for the state of Israel. We like to think the president is a king and can snap his fingers to make his will THE will (see all the people thinking Biden can control gas prices, for instance), but that just isn’t so.

                  Biden circumvented congress to provide weapons that he knew would be used for genocide.

                  If withdrawing his support won’t do anything, we aided a genocide for no reason other than Biden really fucking wanted to. If it will do something, his continued support makes the genocide possible. I do not buy any argument in favor of continuing support for genocide, because there is no good reason for genocide.

                  Expecting me to buy the “he isn’t a king” line when he acted by himself without congress in order to sell Netanyahu weapons when he didn’t have to is insulting.

          • Ð Greıt Þu̇mpkin
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            157 months ago

            I’ll be nice and assume you’re just stupid instead of actively trying to support the Zionist cause by letting their biggest supporter back into office.

              • Franklin
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                87 months ago

                Why not you just go around spamming the same nebulistic nonsense, without providing any actionable advice and promoting voter apathy. As far as I’m concerned you’re a big part of the problem.

              • @[email protected]
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                47 months ago

                Why should they change their comment when the comment remains correct and unsuccessfully assailed?

                They’re repeating the comment because it’s still right. This is called consistent messaging

              • @[email protected]
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                37 months ago

                This account literally posted the same “Found the genocide supporter” comment under one of my comments in another thread when i called out a disgenuous user.

                Cant even make up that level of projection. As if my hatred of the apartheid state wasnt the only consistent view ive held for the past 15 years or so. But, u know, better reduce nuanced position into something more easily digestable to discourage the youth on this platform from keeping the fascist out of office.

    • @[email protected]
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      157 months ago

      If you want to argue that the answer to Biden being too soft on Israel’s crimes is to let the guy who handed them East Jerusalem, The West Bank, and The Golan Heights on a silver platter get back into power, you’re either a covert Zionist agent, or an unwitting Zionist agent.

      The answer to Biden’s complicity in Netanyahu’s genocide is greater political pressure for him to stop.

      Of course, people who don’t want him to stop will always try to pretend that any opposition is support for Trump.

      • @[email protected]
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        197 months ago

        Of course, people who don’t want him to stop will always try to pretend that any opposition is support for Trump.

        You honestly think the people posting this sentiment don’t want Netanyahu to stop? That’s a silly opinion if so. Maybe you disagree with the logic being used, but you can’t say these people actively want Netanyahu to continue what he’s doing.

        I want this to end as much as you, but it is undeniable that Biden is a better candidate than Trump in this respect. And in our country there are only 2 options so vote for. So if I’m not voting for Biden, I am just helping Trump get in office and do more harm.

        • @[email protected]
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          107 months ago

          You honestly think the people posting this sentiment don’t want Netanyahu to stop?

          I don’t know. They sure as hell don’t want Biden to stop supporting Netanyahu’s genocide.

          Maybe you disagree with the logic being used, but you can’t say these people actively want Netanyahu to continue what he’s doing.

          Then they should pressure Biden to stop supporting Netanyahu’s genocide. They won’t. They get mad at people who say Biden should stop supporting genocide instead.

          I want this to end as much as you,

          Yeah.

          but it is undeniable that Biden is a better candidate than Trump in this respect.

          Yes. He should still stop supporting genocide. Maybe centrists should say so.

          • @[email protected]
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            137 months ago

            You can be 2 things at the same time. This whole thread is about voting. It’s possible to pressure Biden while also voting against the undeniably worse candidate.

            What doesn’t make sense is voting in a way that will end up significantly worse for Gaza and saying you’re doing that because you can’t possibly support Biden.

            • @[email protected]
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              47 months ago

              It’s possible to pressure Biden while also voting against the undeniably worse candidate.

              Then centrists should start doing the former in addition to the latter.

              Instead, they scream that anyone who does the former wants trump.

              • @[email protected]
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                117 months ago

                I think when you joint a thread that’s about voting, or references voting, these are the comments you’re going to see. Doesn’t means we’re “centrists”, just means we care about the election results IN ADDITION TO the state of our world.

                • @[email protected]
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                  37 months ago

                  Doesn’t means we’re “centrists”, just means we care about the election results IN ADDITION TO the state of our world.

                  If you care about election results, you should be doing everything you can to pressure Biden to abandon a losing issue.

                  If not “centrist”, what term would you prefer for people who would rather support genocide and lose to Trump with all that entails than abandon support for genocide and win?

      • @[email protected]
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        157 months ago

        Of course, people who want an excuse to support trump will pretend anyone not vocally raging about Biden every day is a lover of genocide.

        • @[email protected]
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          57 months ago

          I’ve said multiple times in this thread that I’m voting for Biden. I’ve told you that multiple times as well. You have chosen to ignore it and call me a trumpist.

          • @[email protected]
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            7 months ago

            Your insistence on pivoting the conversation to be anti-biden literally every chance you get is suspicious to say the least

              • @[email protected]
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                97 months ago

                You know a lot of people really are as stupid as you take them to be, but many aren’t. What you’re doing here is obvious

                • @[email protected]
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                  77 months ago

                  Oh? what I am I doing? What’s the newest baseless accusation are you going to throw at me because I don’t like genocide?

                  • @[email protected]
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                    77 months ago

                    People can see it, I’m not going to keep responding to someone who is quite obviously a bad faith actor.

            • @[email protected]
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              7 months ago

              Your intense rage and conspiratorial suspicion at people criticizing Biden for actively abetting a genocide is pretty suspicious to say the least.

              • @[email protected]
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                37 months ago

                So anyone opposed to curtailing abortion rights also loves actively killing babies too, right?

                It’s definitely not that it’s more complicated than that. It’s that such folks love to watch babies get murdered. Tickles them pink. Your “argument” is definitely not a cop-out meant to shut down anyone who disagrees by accusing them of supporting something that at most .01% of humans would ever support. It’s completely and totally honest.

                • @[email protected]
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                  7 months ago

                  It is really hard to believe you folks don’t want genocide when you spend every day railing at people who want it to stop. I recognize usernames from the people who were shouting we were supporting Trump for voting uncomitted in a primary. If your reaction to every instance of someone trying to pressure Biden to not continue a genocide is vitriolic rage, then I think I should be questioning your motives.

                  I don’t think you want the genocide necessarily, I just think you’re so terrified and self-interested that you won’t risk literally anything to stop a genocide. You’re cowards who are going to let my coworkers families be shelled out of their homes in the hope that Biden will save you from Trump, rather than trying for even an instant to prevent it from happening. I also think that supporting the genocide is going to lose Biden the election, so I think even your self-interested fear is deluded. Biden is sitting on damning evidence of his administration pushing for Israel support despite growing evidence of Israel’s crimes, and I am not naive enough to think that will remain secret until election day.

                  • @[email protected]
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                    7 months ago

                    Which is it?

                    It is really hard to believe you folks don’t want genocide when you spend every day railing at people who want it to stop

                    or

                    I don’t think you want the genocide necessarily

                    ?

                    What’s hard for me to believe is that the users – which I see every day just waiting for an opportunity to throw Biden under the bus for not stopping something he could at best TRY to stop, except instead of acknowledging that reality, laying all of it at his feet – have no ulterior motive.

                    I also think that supporting the genocide is going to lose Biden the election

                    If that happens, it will be aided tremendously by campaigns like yours and your friends, going around trying to get people to blame Biden entirely for something that at most he failed to act properly against. You will re-elect Trump, and you’ll pretend the entire fucking time that you acted morally and it won’t be your fault when it happens. Then you’ll use your ass backward logic and say that the whole time it was Biden’s fault for personally and gleefully killing children, and secondarily it will be every single person’s fault who tried to caution you against this scorched Earth bullshit. Trump will destroy democracy and support Israel to the extreme and according to you it will be everyone’s fault besides yours, because blaming the millennia of conflict in the middle east on the somewhat sane candidate during an election year was the moral thing to do and completely worth the risk.

                    You’re either myopic fucking fools or you’re campaigning for a fascist.

    • @[email protected]
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      7 months ago

      Israel committed a far bigger land grab under Biden than under Trump

      Israel’s largest land seizure since Oslo Accords deals fresh blow to Palestinian statehood

      Biden rejects the Palestinian UN application

      US vetoes widely supported resolution backing full UN membership for Palestine

      Genocide Joe lies that israel isn’t committing war crimes so he can send them more bombs to commit Genocide with

      Leaked U.S. Memos Say Israel May Be Violating International Law In Blocking Gaza Aid

      Trump cannot be worse for Palestine than Biden. Biden fully supports full Genocide of all Palestinians. Accusing opponents of Biden of being Zionist agents is top tier irony.

        • @[email protected]
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          67 months ago

          Strange how the people the jump in to question my motives are always those that actively defend israel.

          • @[email protected]
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            137 months ago

            "If you disagree with me, you like it when children are killed. "

            Hmm who’s normally making that argument?

            Not republicans. That’s definitely for sure.

          • @[email protected]
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            7 months ago

            Guys it’s perfect. All you have to do is pretend that a) you’re a Biden voter so you have credibility and b) you care about Palestinians. Anyone who questions you can instantly be considered a bloodthirsty racist monster. We can turn thousands of voters against Biden and all we have to do is pretend to give a fuck about these people. It’s genius actually!

            Collapses into a pile of furious masterbation

            Edit: I responded to the wrong drone but everything but the Biden voter part here still applies