Service charges; resort fees; "surcharge" add-ons: A new state law requiring price transparency is set to take effect in July. Until now, no one knew how it would apply to restaurants.
Need this nationwide. I hate having fees added on to the price of what I’m ordering.
Only fees that are entirely optional — like leaving a tip for staff — can be left out of the posted price.
Wrong move. They should have outlawed tipping too. No more hiring for shit wages and leaving adequate compensation up to chance. Bump up the menu price and pay your staff an enticing salary.
Agreed. I hate tipping. Some tippers will hate for tipping to go away because they can use their charisma to make a lot of money. More power to them but tipping is just a way for these businesses to keep their labor low. Many other countries don’t have tipping and can still have restaurants. For some reason the US needs tipping to be able to have restaurants.
Some tippers will hate for tipping to go away because they can use their charisma to make a lot of money
The funny thing is even if restaurants are forced to pay a living wage and not have tips as a subsidy, these servers would actually still be able to do that. Maybe not AS much as before, but between that and an actual living wage is bet they still would come out ahead lol
A lot (not all) of workers in the service industry like tipping, actually. They get cash a lot of the time, which they like, and can under report on their taxes. Most people opposed to banning tipping, in my experience, are actually the people receiving the tips.
Something tells me these same workers wouldn’t like tipping so much if people didn’t feel obligated to tip under threat of food tampering (real or imagined) or other threat/shame tactics.
I do wonder how much that’s changed over time. As more of us use only electronic payments or credit cards, that has to reduce the opportunity for tax fraud (same with panhandlers - I literally don’t carry any cash I could give you, so now what?)
Meanwhile, most places in London pay at least the minimum wage (not lower for waitstaff, but not necessarily living wage) and tack on an optional 12-20% service charge, and don’t give it to staff.
You have to determine if the service charge goes to staff, awkwardly refuse the service charge, and (optionally) tip your waitstaff in cash (and if you do, ask they split it with back of house)
The times we’ve done it seems to make the staff happy. Still a shit thing to do.
A few places in Seattle experimented with different ways to go tipping when the city raised the minimum wage across the board without making an exception for tipped wages. A few forbade tipping a few had a standardized tip percentage. A few had a surcharge added on. Many made it clear how they did it. Shitheads like Tom Douglas did not make it clear and added a 4% charge on the bill noting that it was a living wage fee. I don’t go to the ones who were shady about it. Largely it has all returned to standard typing. There are a few coffee shops like Seattle Coffee Works and an ice cream shop (Mollie Moon’s) that do not allow tips.
They won’t make nearly as much as they did with tipping. I expect either tipping to come back to that place or the servers to leave for somewhere better.
Agreed, but overall a good move to address separate and much simpler issue of predatory pricing (for the customer)
Heading to mother’s day lunch right now, set menu for $89 per person. Except it’s a 10% surcharge on Sundays, the only day that mother’s day is, so that price isnt really true at all.
This in Aus which I’d normally argue has better common-sense policies such as requiring sales tax in the menu price
I’m not a California resident but once on a visit I ate at a place. Paid the bill. No tip. Left.
The shopkeeper chased me on the street to catch up and ask why I didn’t tip, and wasn’t the food good, etc. Embarrassed, I was with a friend who is a resident… I told her yes it was fine. “Then why no tip?!”
Internally: Because it’s a tip? I didnt get some kind of exceptional service there. If anything they left us alone really. So what was I tipping for exactly? why not just charge a different price, etc.
Externally: “Oh I’m sorry. I didn’t know”
Yeah, but you know how the system works, so you intentionally stiffed someone out of their income. Regardless of if the system is correct or just it exists and you don’t get to just opt out without being a gigantic asshole.
Ok… Thanks for your input I guess, but as a European, the practice of tipping isn’t ingrained in my culture as it may be in yours. Frankly, I find it bizarre and from the outside I also see many in your own culture find it bizarre also. If not downright predatory of businesses on customers.
Why not? If the waitron is counting on an “optional” tip and doesn’t get it, maybe they have more incentive to insist on fair pay or move along. … that’s what I say to myself , anyway, as I’m leaving the tip
If I go to McDonald’s and they serve me food. I don’t tip them. the same thing happened at that smaller restaurant. If all they did is walk the food to my table and that’s it, then why am I tipping some percent extra for them to walk the plates 3 meters (~15 feet)?
You don’t need to ban tipping. Several countries don’t have a tipping culture and that’s because the waiters are paid adequately for their work. Tipping is seen as a bonus after exceptionally good service.
The US should raise the minimum wage for restaurant workers and not make it the customer’s responsibility to make sure the waiter can pay their rent.
Definately how it should be, but staff at most places hate that idea. They know they’re making way over what they should be for the job, and they like not reporting all their earnings on taxes.
Take your basic non super fancy restaurant, dinner for two with appetizers, entrees, desserts, a two rounds of drinks will probably be $100ish. And that table of two will be there for an hour.
Assuming server gets 20% tip average, that’s $20 for the table.
An average server will have four tables in their sections. That means if the restaurant is full, they are making $80 an hour in tips. They will get to keep 60% to 80% of that, the rest going in a tip pool that benefits kitchen staff, bussers, barbacks, etc. But they’ll still be making pretty good money.
Of course if the restaurant is empty or they only have one or two tables with people seated, they are making less.
The problem comes that if you get rid of this system, there’s a lot of financial risk for the restaurant owner. Currently they don’t have to pay the server or the staff very much, most of their compensation comes from tips, meaning there is less risk to them keeping the restaurant fully staffed if it’s not going to be busy.
If you pay all these people are constant hourly, now there is risk on the restaurant owner in terms of staffing. Bring on too many staff when it’s quiet and they will lose a bundle. Don’t bring on enough staff when it’s busy and those people don’t have a financial incentive to bust their ass.
It also becomes solely their job to ensure quality, because the server that spends half the time on their phone in the back room is making the same money as the server who is attentive to their tables. It also means less risk for hiring an inexperienced server, because if the server does a bad job they just won’t make good tips.
All that said, I agree something has to change.
I think perhaps one answer would be a law requiring that each restaurant put 15% of gross receipts into a virtual tip pool. That way they aren’t paying through the nose to staff and empty restaurant, there would be a line item on the check like ‘automatic gratuity paid the staff $whatever on this check, further tipping is optional’.
there’s a lot of financial risk for the restaurant owner
Risk for the business owner, what a concept. The workers aren’t there to defray risks for an owner, they’re doing a job. If the restaurant founder wants to push risk to their employees, make it a coop, then they can share in the profits as well as the risk.
Well if the risk is that they are paying $300 an hour in unnecessary labor, that’s a risk that would put almost any restaurant under.
Perhaps a better answer would be a commission-based system, just build a 20% commission into the price of the food rather than making it a mandatory tip or a line item on the receipt. Problem is that makes marketing harder because you have to explain why your food is 20% more expensive than the competition and try to get people to understand that their bill will actually be the same or less.
It also doesn’t necessarily incentivize the employee to provide better service. And while I conceptually agree that should be the responsibility of the manager, in practice it’s difficult.
I’m not sure what the solution is. I agree there needs to be one.
Servers deserve a lot more than minimum wage.
Servers would generally not accept anything close to minimum wage, especially when with tips they can be making $50 to $100 an hour on a busy night.
I am simply pointing out that it is difficult to compete with that.
Nowhere close to enough.
What we pay teachers is fucking criminal. I believe teaching should be a respected and sought profession that employs the best. Unfortunately my impression is nobody is really taking education seriously, except for the handful of teachers that haven’t burned out yet.
Just in case this isn’t a joke, then this is probably a country difference. In America, “entree” is synonymous with “main course”. I know, I know. That’s not what entree means. But the fact remains.
Where im from ive never heard of that, entree is usually a starter snack to hold you over till the food is done. But this could also be a regional thing still.
I am from Texas and have lived in several states in the eastern half of the US. “Entree” on a menu has always been the main dish in my experience. You also frequently see it used that way on recipe websites. This is the first I’ve heard that entree has a different meaning elsewhere. Merriam Webster has a bit of background info on how that came to be.
Hmm maybe this is a weird area where my part of SoCal reverted then, we do have a pretty big European immagrant population to this day. Lots of Germans and Nordics for some reason.
Huh? This might be a different wording thing. In the US, entree is another word for main course.
So the meal I am illustrating is for two, has two starters, two main courses, two desserts, four drinks in total.
Wrong move. They should have outlawed tipping too. No more hiring for shit wages and leaving adequate compensation up to chance. Bump up the menu price and pay your staff an enticing salary.
Agreed. I hate tipping. Some tippers will hate for tipping to go away because they can use their charisma to make a lot of money. More power to them but tipping is just a way for these businesses to keep their labor low. Many other countries don’t have tipping and can still have restaurants. For some reason the US needs tipping to be able to have restaurants.
The funny thing is even if restaurants are forced to pay a living wage and not have tips as a subsidy, these servers would actually still be able to do that. Maybe not AS much as before, but between that and an actual living wage is bet they still would come out ahead lol
A lot (not all) of workers in the service industry like tipping, actually. They get cash a lot of the time, which they like, and can under report on their taxes. Most people opposed to banning tipping, in my experience, are actually the people receiving the tips.
And yet many of those people are also the first to complain about having inconsistent paychecks. Funny how that works
Something tells me these same workers wouldn’t like tipping so much if people didn’t feel obligated to tip under threat of food tampering (real or imagined) or other threat/shame tactics.
I mean, I don’t think they’re necessarily the same people, that’s why I said not all.
The real perk of getting tips in cash is not having to visit an ATM to buy drugs from each other
I can tell you’ve worked at restaurants.
Not me but I’ve lived with a chef for over a decade lol
I do wonder how much that’s changed over time. As more of us use only electronic payments or credit cards, that has to reduce the opportunity for tax fraud (same with panhandlers - I literally don’t carry any cash I could give you, so now what?)
A restaurant in my area recently put up signs saying they pay their staff a living wage, raised prices, and forbaid tips. More like this, please.
Meanwhile, most places in London pay at least the minimum wage (not lower for waitstaff, but not necessarily living wage) and tack on an optional 12-20% service charge, and don’t give it to staff.
You have to determine if the service charge goes to staff, awkwardly refuse the service charge, and (optionally) tip your waitstaff in cash (and if you do, ask they split it with back of house)
The times we’ve done it seems to make the staff happy. Still a shit thing to do.
A few places in Seattle experimented with different ways to go tipping when the city raised the minimum wage across the board without making an exception for tipped wages. A few forbade tipping a few had a standardized tip percentage. A few had a surcharge added on. Many made it clear how they did it. Shitheads like Tom Douglas did not make it clear and added a 4% charge on the bill noting that it was a living wage fee. I don’t go to the ones who were shady about it. Largely it has all returned to standard typing. There are a few coffee shops like Seattle Coffee Works and an ice cream shop (Mollie Moon’s) that do not allow tips.
I still hate Tom Douglas for that shit.
Add to that the fact that he was one of the big proponents against paying tipped workers a minimum wage.
They won’t make nearly as much as they did with tipping. I expect either tipping to come back to that place or the servers to leave for somewhere better.
Or they could, you know, just pay the servers a fair wage.
Yeah, maybe they’ll make $50/he. And maybe cops will fly.
Raising wages is what business do when they don’t want their employees to quit. It’s not some mythical thing that never happens.
Agreed, but let’s not let perfect be the enemy of good here.
Agreed, but overall a good move to address separate and much simpler issue of predatory pricing (for the customer)
Heading to mother’s day lunch right now, set menu for $89 per person. Except it’s a 10% surcharge on Sundays, the only day that mother’s day is, so that price isnt really true at all.
This in Aus which I’d normally argue has better common-sense policies such as requiring sales tax in the menu price
I’m not a California resident but once on a visit I ate at a place. Paid the bill. No tip. Left. The shopkeeper chased me on the street to catch up and ask why I didn’t tip, and wasn’t the food good, etc. Embarrassed, I was with a friend who is a resident… I told her yes it was fine. “Then why no tip?!” Internally: Because it’s a tip? I didnt get some kind of exceptional service there. If anything they left us alone really. So what was I tipping for exactly? why not just charge a different price, etc. Externally: “Oh I’m sorry. I didn’t know”
Yeah, but you know how the system works, so you intentionally stiffed someone out of their income. Regardless of if the system is correct or just it exists and you don’t get to just opt out without being a gigantic asshole.
Ok… Thanks for your input I guess, but as a European, the practice of tipping isn’t ingrained in my culture as it may be in yours. Frankly, I find it bizarre and from the outside I also see many in your own culture find it bizarre also. If not downright predatory of businesses on customers.
Why not? If the waitron is counting on an “optional” tip and doesn’t get it, maybe they have more incentive to insist on fair pay or move along. … that’s what I say to myself , anyway, as I’m leaving the tip
If I go to McDonald’s and they serve me food. I don’t tip them. the same thing happened at that smaller restaurant. If all they did is walk the food to my table and that’s it, then why am I tipping some percent extra for them to walk the plates 3 meters (~15 feet)?
You don’t need to ban tipping. Several countries don’t have a tipping culture and that’s because the waiters are paid adequately for their work. Tipping is seen as a bonus after exceptionally good service.
The US should raise the minimum wage for restaurant workers and not make it the customer’s responsibility to make sure the waiter can pay their rent.
Tipping culture has metastasized in the US. It won’t go away on its own.
Definately how it should be, but staff at most places hate that idea. They know they’re making way over what they should be for the job, and they like not reporting all their earnings on taxes.
Not disagreeing, just providing a counterpoint.
Take your basic non super fancy restaurant, dinner for two with appetizers, entrees, desserts, a two rounds of drinks will probably be $100ish. And that table of two will be there for an hour. Assuming server gets 20% tip average, that’s $20 for the table. An average server will have four tables in their sections. That means if the restaurant is full, they are making $80 an hour in tips. They will get to keep 60% to 80% of that, the rest going in a tip pool that benefits kitchen staff, bussers, barbacks, etc. But they’ll still be making pretty good money.
Of course if the restaurant is empty or they only have one or two tables with people seated, they are making less.
The problem comes that if you get rid of this system, there’s a lot of financial risk for the restaurant owner. Currently they don’t have to pay the server or the staff very much, most of their compensation comes from tips, meaning there is less risk to them keeping the restaurant fully staffed if it’s not going to be busy. If you pay all these people are constant hourly, now there is risk on the restaurant owner in terms of staffing. Bring on too many staff when it’s quiet and they will lose a bundle. Don’t bring on enough staff when it’s busy and those people don’t have a financial incentive to bust their ass. It also becomes solely their job to ensure quality, because the server that spends half the time on their phone in the back room is making the same money as the server who is attentive to their tables. It also means less risk for hiring an inexperienced server, because if the server does a bad job they just won’t make good tips.
All that said, I agree something has to change. I think perhaps one answer would be a law requiring that each restaurant put 15% of gross receipts into a virtual tip pool. That way they aren’t paying through the nose to staff and empty restaurant, there would be a line item on the check like ‘automatic gratuity paid the staff $whatever on this check, further tipping is optional’.
Risk for the business owner, what a concept. The workers aren’t there to defray risks for an owner, they’re doing a job. If the restaurant founder wants to push risk to their employees, make it a coop, then they can share in the profits as well as the risk.
Well if the risk is that they are paying $300 an hour in unnecessary labor, that’s a risk that would put almost any restaurant under. Perhaps a better answer would be a commission-based system, just build a 20% commission into the price of the food rather than making it a mandatory tip or a line item on the receipt. Problem is that makes marketing harder because you have to explain why your food is 20% more expensive than the competition and try to get people to understand that their bill will actually be the same or less. It also doesn’t necessarily incentivize the employee to provide better service. And while I conceptually agree that should be the responsibility of the manager, in practice it’s difficult. I’m not sure what the solution is. I agree there needs to be one.
if they don’t make enough tips to reach minimum wage, the employer still has to pay
Servers deserve a lot more than minimum wage. Servers would generally not accept anything close to minimum wage, especially when with tips they can be making $50 to $100 an hour on a busy night.
I am simply pointing out that it is difficult to compete with that.
How much do teachers make on a busy day, again?
Nowhere close to enough. What we pay teachers is fucking criminal. I believe teaching should be a respected and sought profession that employs the best. Unfortunately my impression is nobody is really taking education seriously, except for the handful of teachers that haven’t burned out yet.
Why on earth would someone go out for dinner, have two starters, and then jump to dessert? 😂
Just in case this isn’t a joke, then this is probably a country difference. In America, “entree” is synonymous with “main course”. I know, I know. That’s not what entree means. But the fact remains.
Where im from ive never heard of that, entree is usually a starter snack to hold you over till the food is done. But this could also be a regional thing still.
It’s specifically the US that calls main courses entrees. No clue why.
Ive never heard of that, and Im from SoCal. Shouldve made it clear im from the US but yeah never heard of folks calling an entree the full meal.
I am from Texas and have lived in several states in the eastern half of the US. “Entree” on a menu has always been the main dish in my experience. You also frequently see it used that way on recipe websites. This is the first I’ve heard that entree has a different meaning elsewhere. Merriam Webster has a bit of background info on how that came to be.
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/entrée
Hmm maybe this is a weird area where my part of SoCal reverted then, we do have a pretty big European immagrant population to this day. Lots of Germans and Nordics for some reason.
Probably an imperial vs metric thing.
Huh? This might be a different wording thing. In the US, entree is another word for main course. So the meal I am illustrating is for two, has two starters, two main courses, two desserts, four drinks in total.
Where the hell are you getting all that for a hundred bucks? I don’t even think you could get that kind of meal at Chili’s for that price.
I was trying to find what would generally be considered a minimum price in most places. Sadly these days, dinner for two is more like $120 to $150