Didn’t you read what they wrote? The men would always win. I’m a 5’9" 180-pound cishet man and if I play basketball against Britney Griner, I will definitely win. For sure.
Oh, they meant professional sports? Well I guarantee you that there’s literally no possibility that Britney Griner could beat the worst player out of the ~550 men in the NBA. No possibility. Britney Griner is definitely worse than all of those 550 men. Because she has a vagina.
Edit: The blatant sarcasm in my post was undermined by a mod deleting the post I was replying to. Oh well.
It kind of borders on delusion if I’m being honest.
Remember when everyone was completely losing their shit about Laurel Hubbard, the trans powerlifter who had qualified for the olympics? Remember how everyone was claiming she was going to smash records and take the gold etc.?
Now, what did we see in reality? Laurel Hubbard didn’t even place. She got beat out by her cis competitors, she broke no records, she fell within the same range of ability as cis women.
Where does this fact leave people’s theory about “the men will always win”?
Edit: I see now you were being sarcastic. In any case I’ll leave the response as is, since people do think like that. Changed it to be a less pointy, lol.
The problem with sarcasm here is that most men believe they can play tennis on par with the Williams sisters. At least according to some survey I saw years ago.
I don’t think I can play tennis on par with the Williams brothers. 92-year-old John Williams and his brother Jerry, who may or may not be alive, but who is apparently younger than him. And even if he was dead, he’d still probably beat me at tennis.
I assume Serena or Venus Williams would just serve the ball at such a speed that, when I fail to hit it back and accidentally stand in its way, it will go straight through my skull and embed itself into the wall behind me and she’d just win by automatic forfeit.
No, we saw a trans woman who had radically altered her biological make-up through use of female hormones, train rigorously, and then perform within the same range as cis women, ultimately failing to place and looking at retirement.
And now we see you in denial about that factual reality because you simply can’t get over your hate. You’re letting your emotions rule your thinking on this.
Also, you’re not even correct about the age being some massive barrier, Lidia Valentin also competed in olympics at 36, going so far as to weigh in for the subsequent Olympics and only ultimatelt retired due to an injury.
It’s irrational to ban people based simply on their status of being trans as trans people vary widely in their physical ability and biological make-up.
Eh…I’m all the words according to Lemmy. The crowd here seems to all be 13-22 year old ultra liberals. I’m liberal, just not hardcore bleeding edge jump of the left cliff liberal.
This is why this debate is stupid. The people having it are arguing against people who have actually played sport their whole lives. I watched an 8th grade travel team decimate what I thought was our very good team. They had a kid show up that was over 6 (in 8th fucking grade) that could play above the rim. He was unstoppable. That kid would easily be a starter in the WNBA and would smash Griner back to Russia. Get 15 or so of those kids and put them up against any WNBA team you want to put together and they’d win handily.
That’s the point. Trans-women athletes are essentially testosterone doping. They’ve got more muscle mass, and a heavier bone structure. That doesn’t go away after the transition. The British Journal of Sports Medicine confirmed that.
In non-competitive leagues, I could care less…everyone can play with everyone…it’s fine. When you’re talking about the Olympics and college sports where the girls have trained their whole lives for a given event only to be beat out by someone who got to take the equivalent of human growth hormones and testosterone is unfair.
Trans-women athletes are essentially testosterone doping.
Are you seriously suggesting that trans women, the people taking anti-androgens to suppress testosterone production because testosterone is literally poison to them, are doping themselves with testosterone to gain an advantage in sports? Is that really a thing you believe?
They’ve got more muscle mass, and a heavier bone structure. That doesn’t go away after the transition. The British Journal of Sports Medicine confirmed that.
Why don’t we take a look at what the British Journal of Sports Medicine actually said:
One of the most noticeable disparities between gender groups was in height and mass (table 1), with (cisgender men) and transgender women being taller and heavier than their cisgender and transgender counterparts (table 1). Body composition measures (fat mass % and fat-free mass %, table 2) between transgender women and cisgender women found no difference. However, transgender women are, on average as a cohort taller and heavier.
So you’re partially correct in that trans women do, on average, have more mass than cis women, but only because trans women tend to be taller. Does that translate to an advantage in athletics?
Compared with cisgender women, transgender women have decreased lung function, increasing their work in breathing. Regardless of fat-free mass distribution, transgender women performed worse on the countermovement jump than cisgender women and (cisgender men). Although transgender women have comparable absolute V̇O2max values to cisgender women, when normalised for body weight, transgender women’s cardiovascular fitness is lower than CM and women.
Apparently not. Trans women, despite being larger on average, performed worse than cisgender women. This is from your own source. Did you not actually read the study, or are you intentionally cherry-picking to misrepresent its conclusions?
When you’re talking about the Olympics and college sports where the girls have trained their whole lives for a given event only to be beat out by someone who got to take the equivalent of human growth hormones and testosterone is unfair.
Imagine a woman training her whole life for an event and being beaten by Brittney Griner. That actually happened, and I bet it was emotionally devastating.
Imagine training your whole life, and then finding out that you were born with a permanent medical condition that will require taking drugs that reduce your athletic performance to below the average of your peers, and this condition will also make lots of sexist chuds want to ban you from sports entirely. I bet that would really be unfair, wouldn’t you agree?
You are welcome to believe that an 8th grader can beat Britney Griner in a basketball game, but just saying it doesn’t make it true and I’m not sure why you think otherwise.
And you may not have noticed, but I haven’t talked about trans people in this discussion at all, since that wasn’t the point I was addressing.
And that proves what about Britney Griner? That’s not even the same sport! Your claim was an eighth grader who has never played her could beat her in basketball, which proves that all 550 men on the NBA are better than her.
Unless you’re claiming all sports require the same amount of athletic skill and ability, this is a terrible argument. And if that is your claim, it’s weird that athletes don’t hop from sport to sport constantly.
Didn’t you read what they wrote? The men would always win. I’m a 5’9" 180-pound cishet man and if I play basketball against Britney Griner, I will definitely win. For sure.
Oh, they meant professional sports? Well I guarantee you that there’s literally no possibility that Britney Griner could beat the worst player out of the ~550 men in the NBA. No possibility. Britney Griner is definitely worse than all of those 550 men. Because she has a vagina.
Edit: The blatant sarcasm in my post was undermined by a mod deleting the post I was replying to. Oh well.
It kind of borders on delusion if I’m being honest.
Remember when everyone was completely losing their shit about Laurel Hubbard, the trans powerlifter who had qualified for the olympics? Remember how everyone was claiming she was going to smash records and take the gold etc.?
Now, what did we see in reality? Laurel Hubbard didn’t even place. She got beat out by her cis competitors, she broke no records, she fell within the same range of ability as cis women.
Where does this fact leave people’s theory about “the men will always win”?
Edit: I see now you were being sarcastic. In any case I’ll leave the response as is, since people do think like that. Changed it to be a less pointy, lol.
Yes, very much sarcastic. I am always annoyed by this ‘men will always beat women in sports’ talking point.
The problem with sarcasm here is that most men believe they can play tennis on par with the Williams sisters. At least according to some survey I saw years ago.
I don’t think I can play tennis on par with the Williams brothers. 92-year-old John Williams and his brother Jerry, who may or may not be alive, but who is apparently younger than him. And even if he was dead, he’d still probably beat me at tennis.
I assume Serena or Venus Williams would just serve the ball at such a speed that, when I fail to hit it back and accidentally stand in its way, it will go straight through my skull and embed itself into the wall behind me and she’d just win by automatic forfeit.
We saw a middling to low level male power lifter make the Olympics at 43. That’s insane.
No, we saw a trans woman who had radically altered her biological make-up through use of female hormones, train rigorously, and then perform within the same range as cis women, ultimately failing to place and looking at retirement.
And now we see you in denial about that factual reality because you simply can’t get over your hate. You’re letting your emotions rule your thinking on this.
Also, you’re not even correct about the age being some massive barrier, Lidia Valentin also competed in olympics at 36, going so far as to weigh in for the subsequent Olympics and only ultimatelt retired due to an injury.
It’s irrational to ban people based simply on their status of being trans as trans people vary widely in their physical ability and biological make-up.
Removed by mod
Eh…I’m all the words according to Lemmy. The crowd here seems to all be 13-22 year old ultra liberals. I’m liberal, just not hardcore bleeding edge jump of the left cliff liberal.
Liberals are just conservatives that haven’t taken their mask off yet. We are progressives, and leftists, and I’m older than you think
What the fuck is this sexist bullshit?
Girls beat boys at basketball all the time. Boys are too fucking fragile to accept it: https://www.npr.org/2023/03/07/1161727783/a-girls-basketball-team-had-to-play-boys-then-werent-allowed-trophies-after-winn
Griner would wipe the floor with you.
I would have thought the sarcasm was blatantly obvious.
Mods removed the original comment, so now your comment reads as sincere.
That explains it then. Thanks.
Even if he wasn’t being sarcastic, these are children. Not full grown adults
What’s your point?
Girls mature faster than boys
You understand the WNBA all stars would be beat handily by an 8th grade all star team right? It wouldn’t be close.
Do I understand that your imaginary scenario is true?
No, I really don’t.
This is why this debate is stupid. The people having it are arguing against people who have actually played sport their whole lives. I watched an 8th grade travel team decimate what I thought was our very good team. They had a kid show up that was over 6 (in 8th fucking grade) that could play above the rim. He was unstoppable. That kid would easily be a starter in the WNBA and would smash Griner back to Russia. Get 15 or so of those kids and put them up against any WNBA team you want to put together and they’d win handily.
That’s the point. Trans-women athletes are essentially testosterone doping. They’ve got more muscle mass, and a heavier bone structure. That doesn’t go away after the transition. The British Journal of Sports Medicine confirmed that.
In non-competitive leagues, I could care less…everyone can play with everyone…it’s fine. When you’re talking about the Olympics and college sports where the girls have trained their whole lives for a given event only to be beat out by someone who got to take the equivalent of human growth hormones and testosterone is unfair.
Are you seriously suggesting that trans women, the people taking anti-androgens to suppress testosterone production because testosterone is literally poison to them, are doping themselves with testosterone to gain an advantage in sports? Is that really a thing you believe?
Why don’t we take a look at what the British Journal of Sports Medicine actually said:
So you’re partially correct in that trans women do, on average, have more mass than cis women, but only because trans women tend to be taller. Does that translate to an advantage in athletics?
Apparently not. Trans women, despite being larger on average, performed worse than cisgender women. This is from your own source. Did you not actually read the study, or are you intentionally cherry-picking to misrepresent its conclusions?
Imagine a woman training her whole life for an event and being beaten by Brittney Griner. That actually happened, and I bet it was emotionally devastating.
Imagine training your whole life, and then finding out that you were born with a permanent medical condition that will require taking drugs that reduce your athletic performance to below the average of your peers, and this condition will also make lots of sexist chuds want to ban you from sports entirely. I bet that would really be unfair, wouldn’t you agree?
You are welcome to believe that an 8th grader can beat Britney Griner in a basketball game, but just saying it doesn’t make it true and I’m not sure why you think otherwise.
And you may not have noticed, but I haven’t talked about trans people in this discussion at all, since that wasn’t the point I was addressing.
I directly said what I was addressing.
https://www.standard.co.uk/sport/football/australian-womens-national-team-lose-70-to-team-of-15yearold-boys-a3257266.html
And that proves what about Britney Griner? That’s not even the same sport! Your claim was an eighth grader who has never played her could beat her in basketball, which proves that all 550 men on the NBA are better than her.
Unless you’re claiming all sports require the same amount of athletic skill and ability, this is a terrible argument. And if that is your claim, it’s weird that athletes don’t hop from sport to sport constantly.