Can also recommend Qobuz which allegedly pays even more than tidal. And it also has real losless audio, instead of whatever Tidal is doing.
And you can even buy FLAC files from them, without DRM.
Or use tools which you can find on the internet, where you can download the flac files ‘for free’ (you still need a subscription).
Or, continue to use Spotify but use xManager on android and spicetify on pc. This will give you the premium experience (and more!) without paying a single penny.
Yeah, those days are generally behind me. I want something that always works and I don’t mind paying for a functioning product. I don’t think comparing an actual service with ways of essentially stealing that service is a fair comparison, but I appreciate what you’re saying.
are you implying these apps don’t always work? because I’ve had little issues with them in the past few years (except that some extensions might stop working but those are just extras so 🤷)
I think I’m just saying that it’s okay to pay for a service when it gives you what you pay for. And if you don’t want to, that’s fine, and for much of my life I did that. I haven’t used either of the services you mentioned, but I think it’s safe to say setting them up is not as streamlined as just setting up a normal Spotify account would be. And beyond that, as Spotify pushes updates, these services presumably not to respond to those updates, but again, I don’t know, haven’t used them.
I also think it’s a bit beyond the discussion, and like I said, not a fair comparison. Tidal v. Spotify v. Apple Music are, I think, better discussions to have.
I gave xManager a go, and while it doesn’t have ads interrupting your listening, it does still have all the Spotify pop up ads trying to get you to upgrade to premium. It’s fine when listening, but selecting what you’re listening to is still irritating.
Yep after first releases and concerts, the only people benefitting from the music are the distributors who deserve nothing for the effort the artist put in.
They are not the talent providing the work. They are skimming off talent. They are riding on someone else’s talent. They are the very definition of parasites. They would have no job if there were no talent. Meanwhile the talent can find other ways to sell their work.
The “talent” doesn’t have a platform without them. This is a mutually beneficial relationship. The "talent would be waiting tables and playing for peanuts in bars without the industry professionals.
Not OP, but I work in the industry, mostly in the live production side. Here’s a taste of behind-the-scenes stuff that artists often rely on others to handle after they leave the recording studio:
Booking shows, radio and television appearances, and other events
Advancing those events with venue staff
Organizing transportation, lodging, and food for tour
Acquiring and managing all of the gear for tour
Getting the artists from show to show while protecting them from themselves and others
Marketing for shows and new releases
Mixing the material the artist just recorded in the studio
Mastering the music the mix engineer put together from that recorded material into a dozen different formats, so you can listen on vinyl, Deezer, YouTube, Spotify, etc.
Mixing the front-of-house (what the audience hears) and mixing the monitors (what the artist hears) for the live show
Making sure all the folks involved with the above are booked
Paying all the folks they booked to make the above happen
I’m not saying the entertainment biz isn’t fucked up and that artists don’t deserve a bigger slice of the pie, but a lot of artists rely on other folks to handle this stuff for them so they have the space to live their lives, create new music, and give audiences a show worth attending.
Certainly, I depend on people more creative and musically talented than me, but they also depend on me and my technically-proficient and business-savvy peers to translate their creativity into something you can access and enjoy.
Thanks for a great reply. I totally see the need for recording engineers (live and mechanical) and related jobs.
Can you compare the industry now to 10 years ago. What jobs have disappeared? The music press seems much less relevant. Does the A&R executive still exist? Etc.
I’m actually just now coming up on my tenth year in the biz, and most of my experience is with indie venues and artists — my perspective on these very good questions is somewhat limited!
On the marketing side, it seems to involve a lot of social media and local publications rather than the traditional music press, as you point out.
I’m sure A&R execs still do their thing with the big labels, but there also seem to be a shitload of small booking agencies/management groups that handle a lot of the organization and business end for national-level indie artists. It seems that a lot of folks in those organizations are doing actual work and not just sitting back collecting a fat executive bonus.
As far as jobs disappearing, my bet is on the assistants and other staff with indirect roles that maybe aren’t as involved since technology has allowed more folks to work from home. I’m thinking along the lines of people eschewing large studio spaces for home studios, since a lot of mixing and mastering can be done “in the box” on a computer with a good set of monitors and a decently-treated room.
I imagine the same would go for some of the distribution and licensing side, since instead of depending on a major label or hiring a person to mail out CDs to a bunch of radio stations and such, you can just use an online service like CDBaby to get your tracks submitted to multiple streamers at once and keep track of royalties without needing a dedicated accountant.
Again, take all this with a grain of salt, since my experience is still somewhat narrow! And also, I don’t intend anything I’ve said as a defense of do-nothing execs sitting back and amassing wealth at the expense of us regular folks on the ground. It’s just that in my experience, most of the non-artist people involved with the entertainment biz do actually provide value to the artist and fans.
I’m loving tidal. Been a few months now.
I’m finding so much more awesome music now. Spotify seemed to get stuck in suggestions where I went “yeh, I guess that’s kinda similar, but that’s not actually what I like about those artists”.
Wait, so we all hate, or should hate Spotify for the low support for artists, but now that I think about it, there is nothing stopping artists from putting their work in the other platforms as well, are they becoming more rich because of it and we just should go with whichever offers the best service for us?
Don’t be harsh on me, I am not defending Spotify at all, just a dumb realization while seeing this graph 😆
I have no idea on the numbers, but given just how huge Spotify is compared to the others, I wonder if record labels just don’t see the worth in additionally posting to the other non major platforms like Tidal. Sure it pays ~3x more but it likely has ~50x less users.
Edit: I just wanted tildes before my numbers, I put a backslash before them to cancel them out as formatting codes, but now it just renders as <sub></sub>. If anyone can tell me how I should fix this please tell me
Don’t use Spotify. Use Tidal, Apple Music, or just pirate and support authors other ways.
What happens at the y-axis is pure magic.
Can also recommend Qobuz which allegedly pays even more than tidal. And it also has real losless audio, instead of whatever Tidal is doing.
And you can even buy FLAC files from them, without DRM. Or use tools which you can find on the internet, where you can download the flac files ‘for free’ (you still need a subscription).
No wonder deezer lacks most of my beloved artists.
Or, continue to use Spotify but use xManager on android and spicetify on pc. This will give you the premium experience (and more!) without paying a single penny.
My premium Spotify account has resulted in me buying tickets and merch from artists I had never heard of. What’s wrong with that?
how do you need premium for that
Because if I had to listen to ads I wouldn’t use it.
with xManager or spicetify you don’t have to listen to any ads either
Yeah, those days are generally behind me. I want something that always works and I don’t mind paying for a functioning product. I don’t think comparing an actual service with ways of essentially stealing that service is a fair comparison, but I appreciate what you’re saying.
are you implying these apps don’t always work? because I’ve had little issues with them in the past few years (except that some extensions might stop working but those are just extras so 🤷)
I think I’m just saying that it’s okay to pay for a service when it gives you what you pay for. And if you don’t want to, that’s fine, and for much of my life I did that. I haven’t used either of the services you mentioned, but I think it’s safe to say setting them up is not as streamlined as just setting up a normal Spotify account would be. And beyond that, as Spotify pushes updates, these services presumably not to respond to those updates, but again, I don’t know, haven’t used them.
I also think it’s a bit beyond the discussion, and like I said, not a fair comparison. Tidal v. Spotify v. Apple Music are, I think, better discussions to have.
I gave xManager a go, and while it doesn’t have ads interrupting your listening, it does still have all the Spotify pop up ads trying to get you to upgrade to premium. It’s fine when listening, but selecting what you’re listening to is still irritating.
that’s strange, I’ve never had that
Yep after first releases and concerts, the only people benefitting from the music are the distributors who deserve nothing for the effort the artist put in.
The distributors are the only people doing any work and providing a service after the artist walks out of the recording studio.
They are not the talent providing the work. They are skimming off talent. They are riding on someone else’s talent. They are the very definition of parasites. They would have no job if there were no talent. Meanwhile the talent can find other ways to sell their work.
The “talent” doesn’t have a platform without them. This is a mutually beneficial relationship. The "talent would be waiting tables and playing for peanuts in bars without the industry professionals.
What value do “industry professionals” add in 2024?
Not OP, but I work in the industry, mostly in the live production side. Here’s a taste of behind-the-scenes stuff that artists often rely on others to handle after they leave the recording studio:
Booking shows, radio and television appearances, and other events
Advancing those events with venue staff
Organizing transportation, lodging, and food for tour
Acquiring and managing all of the gear for tour
Getting the artists from show to show while protecting them from themselves and others
Marketing for shows and new releases
Mixing the material the artist just recorded in the studio
Mastering the music the mix engineer put together from that recorded material into a dozen different formats, so you can listen on vinyl, Deezer, YouTube, Spotify, etc.
Mixing the front-of-house (what the audience hears) and mixing the monitors (what the artist hears) for the live show
Making sure all the folks involved with the above are booked
Paying all the folks they booked to make the above happen
I’m not saying the entertainment biz isn’t fucked up and that artists don’t deserve a bigger slice of the pie, but a lot of artists rely on other folks to handle this stuff for them so they have the space to live their lives, create new music, and give audiences a show worth attending.
Certainly, I depend on people more creative and musically talented than me, but they also depend on me and my technically-proficient and business-savvy peers to translate their creativity into something you can access and enjoy.
Thanks for a great reply. I totally see the need for recording engineers (live and mechanical) and related jobs.
Can you compare the industry now to 10 years ago. What jobs have disappeared? The music press seems much less relevant. Does the A&R executive still exist? Etc.
I’m actually just now coming up on my tenth year in the biz, and most of my experience is with indie venues and artists — my perspective on these very good questions is somewhat limited!
On the marketing side, it seems to involve a lot of social media and local publications rather than the traditional music press, as you point out.
I’m sure A&R execs still do their thing with the big labels, but there also seem to be a shitload of small booking agencies/management groups that handle a lot of the organization and business end for national-level indie artists. It seems that a lot of folks in those organizations are doing actual work and not just sitting back collecting a fat executive bonus.
As far as jobs disappearing, my bet is on the assistants and other staff with indirect roles that maybe aren’t as involved since technology has allowed more folks to work from home. I’m thinking along the lines of people eschewing large studio spaces for home studios, since a lot of mixing and mastering can be done “in the box” on a computer with a good set of monitors and a decently-treated room.
I imagine the same would go for some of the distribution and licensing side, since instead of depending on a major label or hiring a person to mail out CDs to a bunch of radio stations and such, you can just use an online service like CDBaby to get your tracks submitted to multiple streamers at once and keep track of royalties without needing a dedicated accountant.
Again, take all this with a grain of salt, since my experience is still somewhat narrow! And also, I don’t intend anything I’ve said as a defense of do-nothing execs sitting back and amassing wealth at the expense of us regular folks on the ground. It’s just that in my experience, most of the non-artist people involved with the entertainment biz do actually provide value to the artist and fans.
I’m loving tidal. Been a few months now.
I’m finding so much more awesome music now. Spotify seemed to get stuck in suggestions where I went “yeh, I guess that’s kinda similar, but that’s not actually what I like about those artists”.
Deezer exists.
Wait, so we all hate, or should hate Spotify for the low support for artists, but now that I think about it, there is nothing stopping artists from putting their work in the other platforms as well, are they becoming more rich because of it and we just should go with whichever offers the best service for us?
Don’t be harsh on me, I am not defending Spotify at all, just a dumb realization while seeing this graph 😆
I have no idea on the numbers, but given just how huge Spotify is compared to the others, I wonder if record labels just don’t see the worth in additionally posting to the other non major platforms like Tidal. Sure it pays ~3x more but it likely has ~50x less users.
Edit: I just wanted tildes before my numbers, I put a backslash before them to cancel them out as formatting codes, but now it just renders as <sub></sub>. If anyone can tell me how I should fix this please tell me