Obviously if you refuse to support the non-fascist then you’re failing to prevent fascism and it’s functionally the same as supporting it. You people love to pretend to not understand this but that doesn’t erase it
I think since the scales are tipped in republicans’ favour (e.g. losing popular vote but winning presidency always goes one way - Trump, Bush), not voting likely benefits them over the dems. Depending on your state of course.
Well, at least that’s a cogent basis for an argument, thank you.
Though I still think this is something Democratic strategists should understand at this point – ultimately it’s Biden’s responsibility to drive out voters, not play chicken with his base in defense of unrepentant war criminals.
I don’t think voters can be blamed for being unable to support the politics of the party moving so far to the right, especially when Biden’s presidency itself is already representative of a massive compromise by progressive voters. If Biden loses, the blame and pressure needs to be put onto the DNC and Biden for failing to do what it takes to keep their base fed, not on the voters, or we are going to end up in this same cycle forever.
A lot of our most prominent progressive representatives came into office after 2016, as a result of Clinton’s failure. The party strategists understand when they lose, they do post-mortems even if they’re not public about them. So I still hold that it’s a valid strategy to allow democrats to fail when they end up going to far to the right, especially in such an egregious case as what we see with Gaza. Democratic support for the genocide can’t continue, it’s beyond the pale.
Agree 100%. I don’t think the people you were arguing with really want to engage on these points, their entire position only applies in the voting booth. They’re right, in pure Biden vs Trump there is only one reasonable choice. I just wouldn’t gamble so hard on the population being reasonable, otherwise Trump would have never won in 2016 either.
If we know that third party candidates can never win, and we absolutely know that, then what options are left? Watching the fascist take office or voting against that.
I’m sure you have some really amazing, totally good faith arguments against this.
This situation is more like seeing two people murdering others and getting told you’re supporting the one who has killed eight people instead of seven because I’m not helping either of them kill people.
Except for the fact that we know how the system works and third party candidates have no chance
So should people who are not going to vote for a Trump or Biden actively cast their vote for Trump then? It’s the same thing, after all, right?
Is not casting a vote for Trump actually a vote for Biden?
Did you fail math?
Obviously if you refuse to support the non-fascist then you’re failing to prevent fascism and it’s functionally the same as supporting it. You people love to pretend to not understand this but that doesn’t erase it
You’re kind of avoiding the question.
If I “fail to support Trump” then I am defacto supporting Biden, right?
They are avoiding the question.
I think since the scales are tipped in republicans’ favour (e.g. losing popular vote but winning presidency always goes one way - Trump, Bush), not voting likely benefits them over the dems. Depending on your state of course.
Well, at least that’s a cogent basis for an argument, thank you.
Though I still think this is something Democratic strategists should understand at this point – ultimately it’s Biden’s responsibility to drive out voters, not play chicken with his base in defense of unrepentant war criminals.
I don’t think voters can be blamed for being unable to support the politics of the party moving so far to the right, especially when Biden’s presidency itself is already representative of a massive compromise by progressive voters. If Biden loses, the blame and pressure needs to be put onto the DNC and Biden for failing to do what it takes to keep their base fed, not on the voters, or we are going to end up in this same cycle forever.
A lot of our most prominent progressive representatives came into office after 2016, as a result of Clinton’s failure. The party strategists understand when they lose, they do post-mortems even if they’re not public about them. So I still hold that it’s a valid strategy to allow democrats to fail when they end up going to far to the right, especially in such an egregious case as what we see with Gaza. Democratic support for the genocide can’t continue, it’s beyond the pale.
Agree 100%. I don’t think the people you were arguing with really want to engage on these points, their entire position only applies in the voting booth. They’re right, in pure Biden vs Trump there is only one reasonable choice. I just wouldn’t gamble so hard on the population being reasonable, otherwise Trump would have never won in 2016 either.
You’re avoiding the truth, not accidentally btw
Just following your logic.
I didn’t invent basic logic, and no, you are not. You are making up dumb shit to try to deny basic logic.
So, for my own sake since I’m such a dumb pleb, you are saying not voting for Trump is a vote for Biden? Or is it not?
I kind of missed your answer to that.
If we know that third party candidates can never win, and we absolutely know that, then what options are left? Watching the fascist take office or voting against that.
I’m sure you have some really amazing, totally good faith arguments against this.
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According to you if you watch a murder happen you are simply protesting the victim and the murderer
This situation is more like seeing two people murdering others and getting told you’re supporting the one who has killed eight people instead of seven because I’m not helping either of them kill people.
Thanks for actually improving my analogy
You watched them kill all those people and then when questioned by police you shrugged your shoulders because bOtH aRe BaD
Yes, both mass murderers are bad. The fuck kind of neolib crack have you been smoking?
I refuse to be involved, man. takes huge hit of crack, Finishes watching murder, then goes back to voting third party
You are deranged