The universe didn’t force you not to believe in magic. You could have spent your whole life believing magnets are magical stones, that the electromagnetic force is magical energy, and that computer engineers are wizards who conjure spirits from magic. And you could have been 100% factually and scientifically correct.
But you chose to believe that magic is by definition not real, because you didn’t want to live in a world of whimsy and wonder. You defined magic as supernatural, in opposition to the natural world. While every scientist knows that nature is just a word for everything that exists. You chose to define magic in a way that it wouldn’t exist, denying it through tautology and not through science.
Why did you choose that?
Sure. I can go with this. I actually once met a woman who jokingly referred to herself as a half elf.
She had a rare genetic condition that caused the uh… not the outer lobe of her ear, but the little inner thingy that you can push on to close your ear canal…
… that thingy kept developing something sort of like a non malignant cyst… not quite that, but basically, it made that part of her ear keep growing.
Sort of the inverse of an elf ear. Not the outer lobe growing to a point, but the opposite part.
How can that be explained? Magic? Did she slip through from the DND realm?
Nope. Long medical history, lots of study.
But… would you call that clear, undeniable magic?
If you’ve got a tummy ache, and I know enough about the ingredients and creation process of pepto bismol to create a weird, pink, strange tasting concoction that you slurp and then wow poof 5 minutes later, no tummy ache…
…is that magic?
I am not being facetious. I have literally no idea what your definition of magic is as you refuse to define it, only attack others by asserting that they tautalogically believe magic is not real.
Can you actually define magic?
Sure. Observable phenomena caused by things that aren’t real. For example, money isn’t real, and therefore the economy is magic. Gender isn’t real, so gender roles are magic. Alchemy isn’t real, so turning lead into gold is magic. Astrology isn’t real, so horoscopes are magic. The state isn’t real, so laws are magic. Hyperspace isn’t real, so the Millenium Falcon is magic. A medieval man suddenly transported into the modern day would have no concept of electrical current being real, so from his point of view computers are magic, but from our point of view they aren’t. Placebos aren’t real, so the placebo effect is magic. This definition accounts for every single example of magic by virtue of the fact that it uses the concept of reality, which means different things to different people. Thus, magic is able to mean different things to different people. The more reality someone believes in, the less magic they see in the world. But an antirealist or a solipsist would see everything as magic, which indeed I do.
This is not how anyone actually uses the word, though.
That’s because this person is arguing semantics, poorly, in bad faith.
Magic isn’t real. No one is choosing to live in a world without whimsy, there are plenty of ways to be mystified by natural phenomena. Look up coronea borealis - suddenly you’ll be captivated by the night sky again (at least a part of it, I’m still having trouble determining which of these stars is actually Arcturus). For an even simpler example, fireflies. If you aren’t captivated by fireflies because they don’t actually have fire in them, you’re probably just an idiot (or allergic to them, though I’ve never met anyone allergic to fireflies). Magic is simply a way for the primitive mind (and by association primitive society) to explain away things that seemingly had no tangible cause.
Magic isn’t real because the collective knowledge of humanity has matured past the need for it.
See, its particularly wild because they started off by asserting that atheists assert that magic is definitionally not real.
Then they described themselves as an anti realist solipsist who does not believe in reality.
I’m not a solipsist. Antirealism and solipsism are as different as socialism and communism. I’m an antirealist. And yes, I don’t believe in reality. Thus, to me, everything is magic.
You write like someone who’s never been hungry.
Yeah, it’s really weird, I just don’t experience hunger. If I don’t take my eating disorder meds, I lose dangerous amounts of weight while feeling totally full and sated. I can work a 12 hour shift on a few crackers and water and it’s fine, except for the dread I feel when I look at the scale and realise how much work it’ll be to regain that weight. And it’s not like I can easily afford enough food to regain the weight, I’m poor.
See, I don’t agree with most of what you’ve said in this thread. That being said, having seen your responses, I also don’t think you’re a bad person.
I would recommend that you seek some kind of help because no amount of powerful thinking will allow you to escape the reality that is needing to eat food and drink water. These things do have a measurable effect on the mind, whether you want them to or not. If your interpretation of reality is preventing you from doing this, then it is a problem (or this may be the root cause of your interpretation, I don’t know enough about you to say).
That being said, I’m not going to police what you think. If your interpretation let’s you live life with a more positive outlook, go for it. Sincerely, though, start eating and drinking water regularly. I understand times are rough, but you can’t neglect this - it will kill you. Hopefully that isn’t something you want.
I hope you have a nice day.
So you’re basically saying that anything you don’t understand is magic… That’s the same irrational thinking as people who explain things by simply saying “god did it”.
Money is very much real, either as gold/silver/etc, fiat, or ones and zeroes on a bank account or crypto wallet. Gender is not “real”, but it is a very real social construct. The state is a very real entity and its laws are very real rules set in place and enforced.
You’re correct in saying that alchemy, transmutation of lead to gold, astrology and horoscopes are not real. Yes, they are magic. The one thing they all have in common is that they do not exist in any form other than fiction, and neither does magic.
No, I didn’t say anything I don’t understand is magic. You’re just making bullshit up. I have a deep understanding of all of the magics I described above except for alchemy, which I’m barely a novice in. And they’re still magic, even though I understand them well.
Okay. It’s pretty obvious you’re just arguing in bad faith and using mindless semantics to debate the non existence of a fake thing. I’m done engaging with nonsense.
Enjoy your wishful thinking.
Ok, so your definition of magic is anything with complexity and alterability that is not well understood by the perceiver or subject.
So basically, ignorance.
I mean I guess I agree with you that the ignorant will label things that function in ways they do not understand, or take issue with, as magic.
So then! Your original posted meme does not work that well then.
Not sure why you posted a meme where atheists are dumb for defining magic as not real, thus precluding it from being real, when you yourself are an actual antirealist solipsist who does not believe in reality.
Pretty much a perfect example of the classic right wing authoritarian strategy of painting your opponents as bad because they believe in bad thing, when they themselves actually believe in the bad thing.
The ‘No U’ rhetoric.
No, I understand all the magics I listed except for alchemy very well. You’re full of shit.