Do you understand why you are being demonized though? You’re making a choice that is purely symbolic just so you feel better, but real and vulnerable people across the country have to deal with the fallout.
You want to make a difference? Great! There’s a lot of ways to do that. Campaign and fundraise at the local and state level. Push for election reform, ranked choice voting, end to gerrymandering, term limits, electoral college reform, curtail lobbying… any number of things, and push for them more often than once every four years. Voting third party in a presidential election does NOT help.
If you want my respect, acknowledge the reality of the situation and vote for the best option (or the least bad option) among the viable candidates and then work for change within the system. It sucks that we are in this situation, but make a choice grounded in the real world, not a fake ideal world.
Voting for the stunt double from weekend at Bernie’s does not grant you superiority.
Most of us have been voting in the primaries and are involved in local politics. It didn’t matter. The R/D machine drowns out all opposition to its duopoly.
Biden will not win this election. Democracy died while he confusedly stared into the camera for 6 seconds. Beyond that, he fumbled his closing statement which should disqualify from any public speaking position.
Trump is inevitable. We did all we could to get an alternative to Biden, but his hubris will destroy us.
So your solution is to give up and throw your vote away? I’m glad you didn’t want my respect because you didn’t get it.
A literal corpse being paraded around for four years like Weekend at Bernie’s would still be a better choice than Trump. He attempted a coup to invalidate the will of the people and maintain power, sent a mob to attack the Capitol building, and has been charged with 91 felony counts in four jurisdictions just for stuff he did while in office and as a candidate (convicted of 34 and counting).
But democracy died when an old man showed signs of being old? Not all that other stuff? Yeah, I’m voting for Biden. Easiest decision of my life. You should too.
You can argue until you’re blue in the face over there. Biden lost the election with that debate. He didn’t do anything he needed to do this term to protect democracy as we know it and the Supreme Court sealed the R’s final solution today.
It’s over man…game over. Congratulations…your support of the status quo ended Democracy.
In short, yea, I’m perfectly fine not having your respect.
You’re making a choice that is purely symbolic just so you feel better
If voting third-party were purely symbolic, there wouldn’t be this many people on Lemmy trying to persuade us to not do it.
I think Biden does want our vote. And we’re telling him that if he wants our vote, he has to stop the genocide. That’s how we can use our vote to influence the government. That’s how democracy is supposed to work.
but real and vulnerable people across the country have to deal with the fallout
There are real and vulnerable people dying in Gaza right now because of what Biden is doing.
You’re gonna need a better example, because people lighting themselves on fire played a tremendous role in ending popular support for America’s occupation of Vietnam during the Vietnam War.
It’s the last thing I would describe as “symbolic”.
So, speaking from a purely pragmatic perspective, voting for Biden is better than other US electoral choices for the purpose of trying to help Palestinians.
I understand your reticence and moral indignation, I largely feel the same.
But the biggest reason Trump won in 2016 is because voters were not particularly enthused with their choices, and a great many decided not voting at all (or voting for Trump as a protest against the establishment) was preferable to voting for HRC.
I have to imagine that we both believe that Trump is worse than Biden when it comes to the Israel-Palestine conflict.
Given that we’re already in election year, it’s down to Biden and Trump. One of them is going to be president come January next year.
Taking all that together, if we want things to get better for Palestine, we should vote for Biden because the alternatives are much worse.
Granted there is a lot you can do outside of elections to help, and I wouldn’t recommend ignoring those. But given that voting for the US president takes a few hours out of one day every four years, it’s not a good idea to ignore that either.
I hope this helps you understand those of us who don’t really like Biden but will vote for him regardless.
No one minds you voting for Biden believe it or not. We do mind being demonized and straw-personed for not voting for him.
Do you understand why you are being demonized though? You’re making a choice that is purely symbolic just so you feel better, but real and vulnerable people across the country have to deal with the fallout.
You want to make a difference? Great! There’s a lot of ways to do that. Campaign and fundraise at the local and state level. Push for election reform, ranked choice voting, end to gerrymandering, term limits, electoral college reform, curtail lobbying… any number of things, and push for them more often than once every four years. Voting third party in a presidential election does NOT help.
If you want my respect, acknowledge the reality of the situation and vote for the best option (or the least bad option) among the viable candidates and then work for change within the system. It sucks that we are in this situation, but make a choice grounded in the real world, not a fake ideal world.
I don’t.
Voting for the stunt double from weekend at Bernie’s does not grant you superiority.
Most of us have been voting in the primaries and are involved in local politics. It didn’t matter. The R/D machine drowns out all opposition to its duopoly.
Biden will not win this election. Democracy died while he confusedly stared into the camera for 6 seconds. Beyond that, he fumbled his closing statement which should disqualify from any public speaking position.
Trump is inevitable. We did all we could to get an alternative to Biden, but his hubris will destroy us.
So your solution is to give up and throw your vote away? I’m glad you didn’t want my respect because you didn’t get it.
A literal corpse being paraded around for four years like Weekend at Bernie’s would still be a better choice than Trump. He attempted a coup to invalidate the will of the people and maintain power, sent a mob to attack the Capitol building, and has been charged with 91 felony counts in four jurisdictions just for stuff he did while in office and as a candidate (convicted of 34 and counting).
But democracy died when an old man showed signs of being old? Not all that other stuff? Yeah, I’m voting for Biden. Easiest decision of my life. You should too.
You can argue until you’re blue in the face over there. Biden lost the election with that debate. He didn’t do anything he needed to do this term to protect democracy as we know it and the Supreme Court sealed the R’s final solution today.
It’s over man…game over. Congratulations…your support of the status quo ended Democracy.
In short, yea, I’m perfectly fine not having your respect.
If voting third-party were purely symbolic, there wouldn’t be this many people on Lemmy trying to persuade us to not do it.
I think Biden does want our vote. And we’re telling him that if he wants our vote, he has to stop the genocide. That’s how we can use our vote to influence the government. That’s how democracy is supposed to work.
There are real and vulnerable people dying in Gaza right now because of what Biden is doing.
This is a logical fallacy. If lighting myself on fire as protest were purely symbolic, then why are all of my friends persuading me to not do it?
Sometimes people trying to convince/persuade you against something isn’t because you actually have a point – but because your ideas will lead to harm.
You’re gonna need a better example, because people lighting themselves on fire played a tremendous role in ending popular support for America’s occupation of Vietnam during the Vietnam War.
It’s the last thing I would describe as “symbolic”.
Did it? My understanding is that the draft and footage of their children dying in war is what reshaped the public opinion.
Genuinely asking though, it was before my time.
There were self-immolations in Vietnam that were protests against the US-backed puppet government in Vietnam.
It wasn’t the only thing that shaped public opinion about the war, but it did have a big impact.
You can read a bit about it here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thích_Quảng_Đức
Thanks!
If you care so much for palestine you vote Biden. Its either Biden or Trump and Trump would flatten gaza to get even more settlements named after him.
Sure, if you are comfortable with the moral liability of fascism them we probably don’t get along.
I’m fine with the moral liability of supporting genocide. That’s why I’m voting for Biden.
So, speaking from a purely pragmatic perspective, voting for Biden is better than other US electoral choices for the purpose of trying to help Palestinians.
I understand your reticence and moral indignation, I largely feel the same.
But the biggest reason Trump won in 2016 is because voters were not particularly enthused with their choices, and a great many decided not voting at all (or voting for Trump as a protest against the establishment) was preferable to voting for HRC.
I have to imagine that we both believe that Trump is worse than Biden when it comes to the Israel-Palestine conflict.
Given that we’re already in election year, it’s down to Biden and Trump. One of them is going to be president come January next year.
Taking all that together, if we want things to get better for Palestine, we should vote for Biden because the alternatives are much worse.
Granted there is a lot you can do outside of elections to help, and I wouldn’t recommend ignoring those. But given that voting for the US president takes a few hours out of one day every four years, it’s not a good idea to ignore that either.
I hope this helps you understand those of us who don’t really like Biden but will vote for him regardless.
You vote for fascism if you dont vote for him so you deserve it.
Well said, „Radio Free Arabia“ 😂