So what is the actual fucking problem with ensuring that trans individuals aren’t discriminated against?
The ONLY real argument for anything regarding trans individuals is sports. Women’s sports are divided out so they can compete equally. No sane person has a problem with ensuring that womens sports contains biological women throughout. And this affects FRAGMENTS of FRAGMENTS of the population (something like 0.15% when accounting for biological abnormalities)
Everything else, renting, jobs, retirement, loans, etc – should abso-fucking-lutely be a protected class against discrimination. Trans people don’t deserve to be treated differently just because you’re scared of them. They aren’t trying to convert your children. They aren’t predators. They’re just wired differently. That’s all.
I’m supportive of trans people’s rights to be left the fuck alone, and to be treated equally. But I also get that there need to be safe spaces for women to exist without some shadow-of-a-doubt in the back of their mind. Yes, that’s exclusionary, but remember the “Man vs Bear” debate a few months back? There are lots of women who are legitimately less trusting of men than they are a wild animal who will maul your face off.
Yeah, I’m harsh with the way that I put things. I understand that; it’s a result of the harsh environment I grew up in as a kid. People who were raised more tenderly probably don’t like the way I speak about things. But I DO support LGBTQ individuals and their right to not be discriminated against; as best as I can reconcile that with my belief that women need places they can escape men entirely if needed.
Women’s sports are divided out so they can compete equally.
This isn’t true at all. Women’s leagues were created because men refused to let women play in the leagues that were already created. That’s literally all there was to it.
I meant when and in what sport “a woman embarrassed a man by winning” leading to gender segregation of the sport. Olympic shotgun skeet seems like an example, but that’s a pretty esoteric “sport,” so using that as an example to generalize about sports more broadly seems poorly conceived.
As I noted below, most major sports leagues in the US don’t have and, with the exception of baseball (which wasn’t because “a woman embarrassed a man by winning,” it was just basic sexism/patriarchy), never had rules about gender segregation. Women have always been eligible to play in the NBA, NHL, NFL, etc.
Are you talking about a specific country or something?
The NFL has no gender-specific eligibility requirements. Anyone good enough to play NFL-level football can play.
The NHL is the same.
The NBA is the same, and women have been invited to training camps in the past, but none were able to perform well enough at the game to play in the NBA.
Women were banned from the MLB in 1952, but that was overturned in the 1990s, but no woman has been able to perform well enough to play in the MLB. Melissa Mayeux did make the international registration list for the MLB though, making her eligible to sign with an MLB team.
There are sports where women can be generally equal to men in performance (ultramarathon running) or generally better than men (target shooting), but they are less popular and less lucrative sports.
No sane person has a problem with ensuring that womens sports contains biological women throughout
Au contraire. Because of HRT, a trans woman would generally have less testosterone than a cis woman. Some of the top-performing cis female athletes would be disqualified by rules based on hiring hormone levels. And puberty-related changes that would prove advantageous can be avoided with puberty -blockers until fully transitioning as an adult with full HRT. And even then the trans female adolescent is at a hormonal disadvantage during that age range.
So FEW trans people actually compete in sports to the level where this even matters. The fact that it even causes the general public to question the results of the sport is enough to not allow it. The whole spirit of competition is that people are playing on equal ground - and if it causes the public to question that equality, then it destroys the entire purpose. Sure, I hope that the public become more accepting of trans individuals over time, and that more studies are released that show they gain no advantage, but HRT is a rather new thing in human history. It’s us toying with nature, and just like genetic engineering - should be disallowed in competition. If India found some new goal in CRISPR to edit the human genome for gain in sport, and they entered the Olympics, everyone would frown upon it. Not because of sex, but because of tampering with the human body. The stated goal of all sports is competition and recognition of the most fit in our species. Modifying the human body is counter to the spirit of it.
Yeah the sealion is definitely barking, here’s the same person in another comment:
I’ve had my niece say she was bullied in school for not wanting to claim she was bisexual or something - and this is in a pretty deep-red area. I’m sorry, but 50% of the population being LGBT is not anywhere close to reality, and is a pretty good sign that these kids are being indoctrinated.
I understand the need to be understanding for people who are this way, but the ‘inclusion’ needle swung so far the other direction that it’s now convincing children that they are gay/bi/trans when they aren’t.
Additionally, I’ve raised my children to take advantage of this and claim they are even if they aren’t - for the purposes of scholarships and other benefits; since being in one of these minorities will see you with better acceptance into college
https://sh.itjust.works/comment/12746064
So what is the actual fucking problem with ensuring that trans individuals aren’t discriminated against?
The ONLY real argument for anything regarding trans individuals is sports. Women’s sports are divided out so they can compete equally. No sane person has a problem with ensuring that womens sports contains biological women throughout. And this affects FRAGMENTS of FRAGMENTS of the population (something like 0.15% when accounting for biological abnormalities)
Everything else, renting, jobs, retirement, loans, etc – should abso-fucking-lutely be a protected class against discrimination. Trans people don’t deserve to be treated differently just because you’re scared of them. They aren’t trying to convert your children. They aren’t predators. They’re just wired differently. That’s all.
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I’m supportive of trans people’s rights to be left the fuck alone, and to be treated equally. But I also get that there need to be safe spaces for women to exist without some shadow-of-a-doubt in the back of their mind. Yes, that’s exclusionary, but remember the “Man vs Bear” debate a few months back? There are lots of women who are legitimately less trusting of men than they are a wild animal who will maul your face off.
Yeah, I’m harsh with the way that I put things. I understand that; it’s a result of the harsh environment I grew up in as a kid. People who were raised more tenderly probably don’t like the way I speak about things. But I DO support LGBTQ individuals and their right to not be discriminated against; as best as I can reconcile that with my belief that women need places they can escape men entirely if needed.
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This isn’t true at all. Women’s leagues were created because men refused to let women play in the leagues that were already created. That’s literally all there was to it.
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When did that occur and in what sport? That seems like an interesting event in sports history, I would be interested to read about it.
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I meant when and in what sport “a woman embarrassed a man by winning” leading to gender segregation of the sport. Olympic shotgun skeet seems like an example, but that’s a pretty esoteric “sport,” so using that as an example to generalize about sports more broadly seems poorly conceived.
As I noted below, most major sports leagues in the US don’t have and, with the exception of baseball (which wasn’t because “a woman embarrassed a man by winning,” it was just basic sexism/patriarchy), never had rules about gender segregation. Women have always been eligible to play in the NBA, NHL, NFL, etc.
Are you talking about a specific country or something?
The NFL has no gender-specific eligibility requirements. Anyone good enough to play NFL-level football can play.
The NHL is the same.
The NBA is the same, and women have been invited to training camps in the past, but none were able to perform well enough at the game to play in the NBA.
Women were banned from the MLB in 1952, but that was overturned in the 1990s, but no woman has been able to perform well enough to play in the MLB. Melissa Mayeux did make the international registration list for the MLB though, making her eligible to sign with an MLB team.
There are sports where women can be generally equal to men in performance (ultramarathon running) or generally better than men (target shooting), but they are less popular and less lucrative sports.
I’d like a citation on this if you would.
Au contraire. Because of HRT, a trans woman would generally have less testosterone than a cis woman. Some of the top-performing cis female athletes would be disqualified by rules based on
hiringhormone levels. And puberty-related changes that would prove advantageous can be avoided with puberty -blockers until fully transitioning as an adult with full HRT. And even then the trans female adolescent is at a hormonal disadvantage during that age range.So FEW trans people actually compete in sports to the level where this even matters. The fact that it even causes the general public to question the results of the sport is enough to not allow it. The whole spirit of competition is that people are playing on equal ground - and if it causes the public to question that equality, then it destroys the entire purpose. Sure, I hope that the public become more accepting of trans individuals over time, and that more studies are released that show they gain no advantage, but HRT is a rather new thing in human history. It’s us toying with nature, and just like genetic engineering - should be disallowed in competition. If India found some new goal in CRISPR to edit the human genome for gain in sport, and they entered the Olympics, everyone would frown upon it. Not because of sex, but because of tampering with the human body. The stated goal of all sports is competition and recognition of the most fit in our species. Modifying the human body is counter to the spirit of it.
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Yeah the sealion is definitely barking, here’s the same person in another comment:
Id love to see a source on the 50% number lmao