Consumers drive markets. Mega corporations aren’t polluting for the fun of it. They do it because it’s a byproduct of them taking our money. Stop giving them money and they stop polluting. Why else would they stop?
“Voting with your dollar” is bullshit. Just stop buying oil? Ok, let me go to the no oil store and buy a new car that doesn’t run on gas and isn’t made with any plastic. Let me spend my entire 5 dollars worth of disposable income to buy a new vehicle. And then take that vehicle to the store that has 0 petroleum products. No cans lined with PFAS, no plastic bags, no plastic packaging, no products made entirely of plastic. Never fly again in your life, or take the bus. Don’t you even think about eating out again. Live life as a hermit, make your own goods, provide your own services and maintinence to yourself to ensure an oil free existence. Better start soon too, the planets only getting hotter. Rinse and repeat x8,000,000,000.
Markets are driven by capital. Those with the most capital have the greatest influence. Your pittance of a wage isn’t going to change a damn thing. 10% of the global population has 52% of the purchasing power. Even if the other 90% of us all united together at once, about a single thing, we still wouldn’t have the purchasing power to overwhelm them. You can’t reform a system that’s made to perpetuate consumption and pollution. It’s cheaper to pollute by design. Do you think it’s a coincidence that bills meant to make polluting more expensive either don’t get passed or are so rife with loopholes they’re effectively useless? Pull your head out of your ass. If there was ever a time this shit show could be reformed, it’s long gone.
Just stop buying oil? Ok, let me go to the no oil store and buy a new car that doesn’t run on gas
You mean an electric car?
There are options for consumers. Some of them cost more right now, others are an investment that pay off later. Buy those and not the polluting option and low and behold the markets change. Why do you think oil companies are starting to diversify more
What’s the trim in the electric car made of? How about the insulation around the wires? The clear coat on the paint? The lamination layer in the glass? What about the headlights and tail lights? The bumper covers? The logo and model letters? How was it delivered to the dealership for you to buy? You think there wasn’t any oil consumed in the mining and refining of the non petroleum materials that constitute the rest of the vehicle? You said stop buying oil. Not stop using gasoline.
The oil in your plastics for your car aren’t being burned, so they don’t contribute nearly as much as gasoline and diesel fuels do towards climate change.
Today is completely impossible to eliminate plastics from the global economy, so ranting about plastic use making it impossible to stop climate change is a red herring.
Only about 10% of oil goes into plastic. We can also make bioplastics out of corn and other agricultural products.
The oil to make that plastic still needs to be pumped out of the ground, refined, and manufactured into an end product. Leaving a trail of carbon emissions and other pollution along the way. It doesn’t just come out of the ground shaped into whatever you want it to be. Bioplastics made from corn are also very resource intensive to produce. While a better option, they’re not perfect either. It’s really not a red herring. Just because it isn’t polluting as an end product doesn’t mean they’re clean. And with things like toxic fumes from off gassing and the products from plastic degradation having long term consequences, it’s not like they just stop being bad as finished products either.
Global production of oil per day is about 90 million barrls. If we use your 50% for gasoline production that’s 45 million barrels. Or 16.425 billion per year. 3.2 billion barrels.) are used annually in the US. Or 19.45% of the global supply of gasoline. About 76% of that is used by individuals. And that’s a generous estimate. The average mpg of a car on the road in the US is 36. The average American drives 13.5k miles per year. Leading to an roughly average annual consumption of 365 gallons per driver per year. 83% of Americans drive frequently. Leaving an annual consumption of about 2.46 billion barrels per year for private citizens gasoline consumption. Or 14.9% of global gas consumption. And again that’s being generous on the average consumption per citizen. I couldn’t find any real numbers on the actual amount of gas consumed by individuals for individual needs in the US.
Also, globally, 45% of oil is used for gasoline. 29% for diesel and the remaining 26% are used for plastic and other products. So my percentage of the us’ consumption per year, and in return the average citizen is exaggerated by a decent margin. That’s not to mention the fact that the majority of the US’ industry runs on diesel. So if we’re going by petroleum fuels, the impact of the average US citizens gas consumption is even lower. You’re trying to eliminate 75% of 19% of 45%, or 6.4% of the total problem by switching to electric. And, again, that’s being generous.
Institutional problems CANNOT be changed by individual action. We need a lot more than 6.4% of pollution to stop if we even have a shot at unfucking ourselves. The answer to overconsumption isn’t more consumption
E: let’s also consider the fact that the majority of people with a car can’t afford to buy an electric car. What are they supposed to do? Stop going to work? Stop buying groceries? Walk miles for every errand? We can’t electric car our way out of catastrophe
remaining 26% are used for plastic and other products.
I don’t think you read your source. The little figure of the oil drum shows 6/45 gallons goes to other products, including some to pladtics. That’s 13% not 26. And it’s wrong to say all of that is plastic is hilariously wrong.
You could have saved yourself all that time and math and gone to a single source about how much GHGs come from domestic drivingbin the US. Here it is
The transportation sector is one of the largest contributors to anthropogenic U.S. greenhouse gas (GHG) emissions.
transportation accounted for the largest portion (29%) of total U.S. GHG emissions in 2021.
On-Road Vehicles account for 1,496.4 Tg CO2 equivalent
So do you think that eliminating that many tonnes of CO2 and that many barrels of oil from companies bottom line would have an impact? Maybe just a little itsy Bitsy tiny bit?
Or are you just going to keep pretending that consumer choices don’t drive markets and climate change.
When you don’t have a choice in the matter due to lack of capital, disenfranchisement, exploitation, lack of transparency, corporate consolidation, and corruption, it’s not really a choice. I couldn’t stop driving or buying petroleum products right now if I wanted to. And I do. I’m too poor. And many people are in the same boat. I stopped eating meat, buy clothes second hand, use vegan products in environmentally friendly packaging whenever I can, pack my own lunch, only use a metal water bottle (with a plastic lid because that’s all that was available to me), support green initiatives, donate, protest and encourage others to do the same. It doesn’t fucking matter at the end of the day.
It’s cheaper for companies to pollute and lie when they’re required to clean their act up. They buy politicians, write their own laws, move production to countries with more lax/no environmental protection and fabricate evidence of curbing emissions and pollution when they can’t avoid it. They will always avoid taking responsibility for their pollution because it’s cheaper than restructuring their entire business model. From soap to gasoline, it is always more cost effective to take the dirtiest, laziest route in production because they made it that way.
Individual choices can help. But to say it’s the best, most effective way to fix climate change is just a straight up lie. How about you respond to literally anything else I’ve had to say? Too difficult to argue against?
Additionally, I said 26% to plastics AND other products, which is a direct quote from my source, just below the graphic you mentioned. Are we just going to ignore the fact you said less than 1% is used for plastic in a previous comment? 13% of that 26 is used, primarily ,for other fuels. Fules that are largely used by industry, not individuals. And the same for diesel for that matter. Mostly industry, not individuals. What am I supposed to do about that? Tell global shipping and transportation infrastructure that if they don’t cut it out I’m gonna stop buying their shit? The portion of that market where my dollar directly contributed to it is small. And the same can be said about everyone else.
You shift between gasoline and GHGs to suit your needs. One comment its “stop buying gasoline” as if that’s a possibility for most people anyway, now this one it’s “focus on the emissions”. Because when I give you the numbers in gasoline consumption, its apparent how little our gas consumption contributes to global oil use. But GHGs are a bigger number, so bigger is better and I’m wrong now? Keep it consistent.
The global oil market earned 4 trillion Last year. You think that piddly 56 billion is a big deal?
Do you know how many cars were purchased in the last year alone? 13.75 million.
You may not be able to afford a car change but millions of other people are. Guess what oil companies see there? Dollar signs. Because the ICE cars make them money. If those 13 million people bought EVs don’t you think maybe just maybe the oil companies would change tacts? Or do you think they’re cool with their profits going down?
You’ve spent so much energy absolving yourself of responsibility here. Maybe of we put that energy towards somethingore productive like choosing a meatless meal or looking at government rebates for electric cars or volunteering for an environmental NGO we might see more progress
While true that they’re not polluting for fun, many corporations will try to avoid any anti-pollution measure that will lose them money. To the point where they spend billions of dollars every year to lobby governements, enviromental protection organizations, and drag out regulations with lawsuits. Because in the long run it’s usually worth it for them to pollute, as long as the investors see enough profits in the short term.
Of course they will. Corporations do not care. They will only do things that make them money. Either because governments threaten to take away their money. Or because markets change and they’re no longer making money so they have to change.
We have seen this with so so so many industries over the centuries. Consumers change behaviours and businesses move to fit their needs. If everyone here started eating less meat there would be more investment in plant based ideas. Because they don’t care about what the impacts of their company are. They care what you and I are buying.
The Amazon fleet is about 70,000 vehicles and they’re transitioning to electric right now.
They are not doing this because of the goodness of their heart. They are doing it because of $$$$. Gas costs more, so it’s more economical to switch to electric.
Rest assured, if there are other places where it’s more economical to strip mine the environment and increase the rate of climate change, they will switch to that cheaper method in a heartbeat, if they aren’t already doing so.
That’s not your point because you’re missing a critical detail: Companies can make a single choice to make very large changes, but your single choice doesn’t mean shit, especially if you’re in a minority. It’s just a way to make yourself feel smug and righteous among your peers.
Individual actions only have merit when there are large majorities driving them, pushing powerful groups with enough force to act.
If it was an option, I wouldn’t buy oil. I can’t just up and buy an EV even if I wanted to (I do). Not that that’s even a completely green option. Also, 5000 EVs vs 10 times as many trucks in the whole fleet is cool, but it doesn’t make me want Amazon to burn to the ground any less.
If you want to kill BP, stop buying oil. The Amazon fleet is about 70,000 vehicles and they’re transitioning to electric right now.
Consumers drive markets. Mega corporations aren’t polluting for the fun of it. They do it because it’s a byproduct of them taking our money. Stop giving them money and they stop polluting. Why else would they stop?
“Voting with your dollar” is bullshit. Just stop buying oil? Ok, let me go to the no oil store and buy a new car that doesn’t run on gas and isn’t made with any plastic. Let me spend my entire 5 dollars worth of disposable income to buy a new vehicle. And then take that vehicle to the store that has 0 petroleum products. No cans lined with PFAS, no plastic bags, no plastic packaging, no products made entirely of plastic. Never fly again in your life, or take the bus. Don’t you even think about eating out again. Live life as a hermit, make your own goods, provide your own services and maintinence to yourself to ensure an oil free existence. Better start soon too, the planets only getting hotter. Rinse and repeat x8,000,000,000.
Markets are driven by capital. Those with the most capital have the greatest influence. Your pittance of a wage isn’t going to change a damn thing. 10% of the global population has 52% of the purchasing power. Even if the other 90% of us all united together at once, about a single thing, we still wouldn’t have the purchasing power to overwhelm them. You can’t reform a system that’s made to perpetuate consumption and pollution. It’s cheaper to pollute by design. Do you think it’s a coincidence that bills meant to make polluting more expensive either don’t get passed or are so rife with loopholes they’re effectively useless? Pull your head out of your ass. If there was ever a time this shit show could be reformed, it’s long gone.
You mean an electric car?
There are options for consumers. Some of them cost more right now, others are an investment that pay off later. Buy those and not the polluting option and low and behold the markets change. Why do you think oil companies are starting to diversify more
What’s the trim in the electric car made of? How about the insulation around the wires? The clear coat on the paint? The lamination layer in the glass? What about the headlights and tail lights? The bumper covers? The logo and model letters? How was it delivered to the dealership for you to buy? You think there wasn’t any oil consumed in the mining and refining of the non petroleum materials that constitute the rest of the vehicle? You said stop buying oil. Not stop using gasoline.
The oil in your plastics for your car aren’t being burned, so they don’t contribute nearly as much as gasoline and diesel fuels do towards climate change.
Today is completely impossible to eliminate plastics from the global economy, so ranting about plastic use making it impossible to stop climate change is a red herring.
Only about 10% of oil goes into plastic. We can also make bioplastics out of corn and other agricultural products.
The oil to make that plastic still needs to be pumped out of the ground, refined, and manufactured into an end product. Leaving a trail of carbon emissions and other pollution along the way. It doesn’t just come out of the ground shaped into whatever you want it to be. Bioplastics made from corn are also very resource intensive to produce. While a better option, they’re not perfect either. It’s really not a red herring. Just because it isn’t polluting as an end product doesn’t mean they’re clean. And with things like toxic fumes from off gassing and the products from plastic degradation having long term consequences, it’s not like they just stop being bad as finished products either.
Ok, stop buying gasoline then. Because the vast majority of oil is used for fuels. Only a small percentage is used for plastics, like less than 1%. 50% is used for gasoline alone.
Simpler? Imagine if we could reduce oil GHGs by 50%. Just by changing the way consumers drive.
Global production of oil per day is about 90 million barrls. If we use your 50% for gasoline production that’s 45 million barrels. Or 16.425 billion per year. 3.2 billion barrels.) are used annually in the US. Or 19.45% of the global supply of gasoline. About 76% of that is used by individuals. And that’s a generous estimate. The average mpg of a car on the road in the US is 36. The average American drives 13.5k miles per year. Leading to an roughly average annual consumption of 365 gallons per driver per year. 83% of Americans drive frequently. Leaving an annual consumption of about 2.46 billion barrels per year for private citizens gasoline consumption. Or 14.9% of global gas consumption. And again that’s being generous on the average consumption per citizen. I couldn’t find any real numbers on the actual amount of gas consumed by individuals for individual needs in the US.
Also, globally, 45% of oil is used for gasoline. 29% for diesel and the remaining 26% are used for plastic and other products. So my percentage of the us’ consumption per year, and in return the average citizen is exaggerated by a decent margin. That’s not to mention the fact that the majority of the US’ industry runs on diesel. So if we’re going by petroleum fuels, the impact of the average US citizens gas consumption is even lower. You’re trying to eliminate 75% of 19% of 45%, or 6.4% of the total problem by switching to electric. And, again, that’s being generous.
Institutional problems CANNOT be changed by individual action. We need a lot more than 6.4% of pollution to stop if we even have a shot at unfucking ourselves. The answer to overconsumption isn’t more consumption
E: let’s also consider the fact that the majority of people with a car can’t afford to buy an electric car. What are they supposed to do? Stop going to work? Stop buying groceries? Walk miles for every errand? We can’t electric car our way out of catastrophe
I don’t think you read your source. The little figure of the oil drum shows 6/45 gallons goes to other products, including some to pladtics. That’s 13% not 26. And it’s wrong to say all of that is plastic is hilariously wrong.
You could have saved yourself all that time and math and gone to a single source about how much GHGs come from domestic drivingbin the US. Here it is
But maybe you’re thinking that the money Americans spend on gas in a year is piddly. After all it’s only $562 Billion a year. Pocket change for BP, right?
So do you think that eliminating that many tonnes of CO2 and that many barrels of oil from companies bottom line would have an impact? Maybe just a little itsy Bitsy tiny bit?
Or are you just going to keep pretending that consumer choices don’t drive markets and climate change.
When you don’t have a choice in the matter due to lack of capital, disenfranchisement, exploitation, lack of transparency, corporate consolidation, and corruption, it’s not really a choice. I couldn’t stop driving or buying petroleum products right now if I wanted to. And I do. I’m too poor. And many people are in the same boat. I stopped eating meat, buy clothes second hand, use vegan products in environmentally friendly packaging whenever I can, pack my own lunch, only use a metal water bottle (with a plastic lid because that’s all that was available to me), support green initiatives, donate, protest and encourage others to do the same. It doesn’t fucking matter at the end of the day.
It’s cheaper for companies to pollute and lie when they’re required to clean their act up. They buy politicians, write their own laws, move production to countries with more lax/no environmental protection and fabricate evidence of curbing emissions and pollution when they can’t avoid it. They will always avoid taking responsibility for their pollution because it’s cheaper than restructuring their entire business model. From soap to gasoline, it is always more cost effective to take the dirtiest, laziest route in production because they made it that way.
Individual choices can help. But to say it’s the best, most effective way to fix climate change is just a straight up lie. How about you respond to literally anything else I’ve had to say? Too difficult to argue against?
Additionally, I said 26% to plastics AND other products, which is a direct quote from my source, just below the graphic you mentioned. Are we just going to ignore the fact you said less than 1% is used for plastic in a previous comment? 13% of that 26 is used, primarily ,for other fuels. Fules that are largely used by industry, not individuals. And the same for diesel for that matter. Mostly industry, not individuals. What am I supposed to do about that? Tell global shipping and transportation infrastructure that if they don’t cut it out I’m gonna stop buying their shit? The portion of that market where my dollar directly contributed to it is small. And the same can be said about everyone else.
You shift between gasoline and GHGs to suit your needs. One comment its “stop buying gasoline” as if that’s a possibility for most people anyway, now this one it’s “focus on the emissions”. Because when I give you the numbers in gasoline consumption, its apparent how little our gas consumption contributes to global oil use. But GHGs are a bigger number, so bigger is better and I’m wrong now? Keep it consistent.
The global oil market earned 4 trillion Last year. You think that piddly 56 billion is a big deal?
Do you know how many cars were purchased in the last year alone? 13.75 million.
You may not be able to afford a car change but millions of other people are. Guess what oil companies see there? Dollar signs. Because the ICE cars make them money. If those 13 million people bought EVs don’t you think maybe just maybe the oil companies would change tacts? Or do you think they’re cool with their profits going down?
You’ve spent so much energy absolving yourself of responsibility here. Maybe of we put that energy towards somethingore productive like choosing a meatless meal or looking at government rebates for electric cars or volunteering for an environmental NGO we might see more progress
Regulations are the only thing that can enforce corporations to do the right thing every time. Free market might make them do it every now and then.
Example: do you want free market to (maybe) decide on use of asbestos and lead in fuel or regulations against them right away?
You do realize that leaded gas came about because of market pressure right? That people had a choice at the pumps to choose from leaded or unleaded?
While true that they’re not polluting for fun, many corporations will try to avoid any anti-pollution measure that will lose them money. To the point where they spend billions of dollars every year to lobby governements, enviromental protection organizations, and drag out regulations with lawsuits. Because in the long run it’s usually worth it for them to pollute, as long as the investors see enough profits in the short term.
Of course they will. Corporations do not care. They will only do things that make them money. Either because governments threaten to take away their money. Or because markets change and they’re no longer making money so they have to change.
We have seen this with so so so many industries over the centuries. Consumers change behaviours and businesses move to fit their needs. If everyone here started eating less meat there would be more investment in plant based ideas. Because they don’t care about what the impacts of their company are. They care what you and I are buying.
They are not doing this because of the goodness of their heart. They are doing it because of $$$$. Gas costs more, so it’s more economical to switch to electric.
Rest assured, if there are other places where it’s more economical to strip mine the environment and increase the rate of climate change, they will switch to that cheaper method in a heartbeat, if they aren’t already doing so.
That is my entire point. Companies only do things that get them money.
Consumers drive markets, companies follow markets. Change how you buy, companies change how they pollute.
That’s not your point because you’re missing a critical detail: Companies can make a single choice to make very large changes, but your single choice doesn’t mean shit, especially if you’re in a minority. It’s just a way to make yourself feel smug and righteous among your peers.
Individual actions only have merit when there are large majorities driving them, pushing powerful groups with enough force to act.
Without power, you can affect nothing.
How sad life must be for you to be so powerless to affect even your own actions. I’m sorry
If it was an option, I wouldn’t buy oil. I can’t just up and buy an EV even if I wanted to (I do). Not that that’s even a completely green option. Also, 5000 EVs vs 10 times as many trucks in the whole fleet is cool, but it doesn’t make me want Amazon to burn to the ground any less.