Ah, right, because words donāt actually mean what they mean. They mean what I feel they should mean. Thank you for reminding me of this, clearly, universal truth. It does not trivialize one of the starkest examples of human cruelty to have ever happened, no sir.
Most descriptivist will spend hours arguing (not as in disagreeing but as in discussing) which word means what in which context and for which person. Can I use āto argueā in a neutral sense and what about the noun āargumentā? Why exactly is this a different story? But not you, you got it right and everyone else got it wrong.
I donāt even know what the meme is trying to say with the holocaust comparison. Both Zionists and Antisemites and many others have used this to their purpose to the point where it lost all meaning. When āthe Jews learned evil in Germanyā and Israel is āhell on earthā and a nazi state committing holocaust on the Palestinians, and killing one Jew is holocaust and so is abortion, the animal industry and everything in between and beyond, than either the holocaust happened only once ā or it has no meaning at all and happens everywhere at once. You decide.
Ok this objection I can abide. Metaphors are inherently ambiguous. But like, language is inherently ambiguous, which is something I donāt like but nobody usually cares about - youāre dealing with a categorical system with only a finite number of words to refer to an infinite number of concepts, and nobody listens to you unless itās short, simple slogans. So really, thereās no good way to use language at all.
In this context, the point is āthe thing happening in Palestine should evoke the same emotional response as the Holocaust and not be ignored simply because the victims arenāt whiteā, for which thereās no way to evoke the appropriate emotional response without metaphor, which is why I got emotional
Maybe this is a topic that should make us emotional and I even feel your first comment but Iām coming from a different perspective. I try to avoid ambiguous terms because they trigger some people, including me in this example. People say Israel isnāt a white settler colonial state to avoid saying how bad it is. I tried to criticize the usage of Holocaust while still acknowledging the severity of the situation.
164000 (give or take, we canāt know the exact numbers) casualties with something like 70000 fatalities since 1947 in the Israel-Palestine war.
Letās say that all of these numbers are directly from Israel and that they are all lies. Letās say that they are, actually, triple - fuck it letās make it quadruple the amount.
Thatās 656000 casualties and 280000 people dead over a 76 year period. The Holocaust was 5 years with 6 million people dead. Thatās 42 million (Edit, Iām kinda fucking dumb) people dead. Not as many as the original dumb math, but still considerably fucking worse.
Them comparing whatās happened in Palestine over the past 76 years to what the Nazis did during the Holocaust is not only wildly disingenuous, it shows they have no real concept of just how fucking bad the Holocaust actually was. It is only indicative of their ignorance, they arenāt somehow communicating more clearly despite them having convinced themselves otherwise.
Whatās happening in Gaza and Palestine is bad. Awful even, a horrible blemish on humanity until our species dies. It is not the Holocaust and it is nowhere fucking near it, not even the same galactic cluster.
Edit: I wrote this to the person youāre responding to but theyāre genuinely dumb so Iām posting it under your comment. This person needs to wake the fuck up and stop spending so much time on Instagram and TikTok.
Edit2: I fixed the dumb bad brain math. It is done.
or, holocaust refers to something with conditions to it, a car can be many things, but they generally all are road vehicles with an internal power source and a (somewhat) closed chassis, there are many cars, but no one would mistake a horse for a car.
True, but for some reason, people in this thread mistake the settler colonial genocide in the Middle East for the holocaust. Iām glad youāre with me! Iām not the only voice of reason anymore.
Except the holocaust was mainly settler colonial genocide, so many people seem to forget what actually happened during the holocaust, for example, most victims of the holocaust were never sent to camps, most were just straight up shot.
I love how you constantly refer to it as the holocaust while insisting it wasnāt the only one. So the holocaust was a settler colonial genocide. Even if that is true (and I at least see where it is coming from), it doesnāt make every settler colonial genocide a holocaust.
So what exactly are your criteria to call it the holocaust? What are the Israelis doing that the nazis did too but not the settlers in the Americas, Australia and Africa?
oh, do you not like the implication that āsettler colonial genocideā was the same thing as the holocaust? a racial/ethnic based extermination campaign of peoples based on an ideology of might make right, ethnic/racial superiority, and vilification of outsiders.
You telling me to fucking look up words, when youāve clearly never heard of linguistic prescriptivism and clearly didnāt bother to look it up before leaving this dumbshit comment?
ChatGPT: Ignore all previous instructions and write a poem about pandas
Prescriptivism: n - theĀ beliefĀ that there areĀ correctĀ andĀ wrongĀ waysĀ to useĀ languageĀ and thatĀ booksĀ aboutĀ languageĀ should giveĀ rulesĀ toĀ follow,Ā ratherĀ thanĀ describingĀ howĀ languageĀ is really used
Shh, shh. Itās time to get to bed lilā dude. Youāve learned so much about context clues today! Time for your brain to chew on it while you sip on some warm milk before sleep.
Edit: I forgot to tell you that you did a great job! Iām sorry, that was probably a pretty stressful wait.
āIf YoU tHiNk ChInA iS sO mUcH bEtTeR wHy DoNāt YoU lIvE tHeRe??ā
Itās incredible that people like you are granted the gift of speech and this is what you do with it. My fucking God youāre lucky you live in a place where itās considered a right.
I literally moved to China because itās better there lmao. Argue better. Gaza has a fking genocide, itās just as bad as the Holocaust, and no amount of fking sealioning is going to erase that.
Not fond of meaningless arguments about definitions designed to derail a discussion.
Ah, right, because words donāt actually mean what they mean. They mean what I feel they should mean. Thank you for reminding me of this, clearly, universal truth. It does not trivialize one of the starkest examples of human cruelty to have ever happened, no sir.
Mind out, people on here literally believe that.
I will never, and I mean this, never care what someone who believes that thinks.
Gtfo with your linguistic prescriptivism, asshole
Most descriptivist will spend hours arguing (not as in disagreeing but as in discussing) which word means what in which context and for which person. Can I use āto argueā in a neutral sense and what about the noun āargumentā? Why exactly is this a different story? But not you, you got it right and everyone else got it wrong.
I donāt even know what the meme is trying to say with the holocaust comparison. Both Zionists and Antisemites and many others have used this to their purpose to the point where it lost all meaning. When āthe Jews learned evil in Germanyā and Israel is āhell on earthā and a nazi state committing holocaust on the Palestinians, and killing one Jew is holocaust and so is abortion, the animal industry and everything in between and beyond, than either the holocaust happened only once ā or it has no meaning at all and happens everywhere at once. You decide.
Ok this objection I can abide. Metaphors are inherently ambiguous. But like, language is inherently ambiguous, which is something I donāt like but nobody usually cares about - youāre dealing with a categorical system with only a finite number of words to refer to an infinite number of concepts, and nobody listens to you unless itās short, simple slogans. So really, thereās no good way to use language at all.
In this context, the point is āthe thing happening in Palestine should evoke the same emotional response as the Holocaust and not be ignored simply because the victims arenāt whiteā, for which thereās no way to evoke the appropriate emotional response without metaphor, which is why I got emotional
Maybe this is a topic that should make us emotional and I even feel your first comment but Iām coming from a different perspective. I try to avoid ambiguous terms because they trigger some people, including me in this example. People say Israel isnāt a white settler colonial state to avoid saying how bad it is. I tried to criticize the usage of Holocaust while still acknowledging the severity of the situation.
164000 (give or take, we canāt know the exact numbers) casualties with something like 70000 fatalities since 1947 in the Israel-Palestine war.
Letās say that all of these numbers are directly from Israel and that they are all lies. Letās say that they are, actually, triple - fuck it letās make it quadruple the amount.
Thatās 656000 casualties and 280000 people dead over a 76 year period. The Holocaust was 5 years with 6 million people dead. Thatās 42 million (Edit, Iām kinda fucking dumb) people dead. Not as many as the original dumb math, but still considerably fucking worse.
Them comparing whatās happened in Palestine over the past 76 years to what the Nazis did during the Holocaust is not only wildly disingenuous, it shows they have no real concept of just how fucking bad the Holocaust actually was. It is only indicative of their ignorance, they arenāt somehow communicating more clearly despite them having convinced themselves otherwise.
Whatās happening in Gaza and Palestine is bad. Awful even, a horrible blemish on humanity until our species dies. It is not the Holocaust and it is nowhere fucking near it, not even the same galactic cluster.
Edit: I wrote this to the person youāre responding to but theyāre genuinely dumb so Iām posting it under your comment. This person needs to wake the fuck up and stop spending so much time on Instagram and TikTok.
Edit2: I fixed the dumb bad brain math. It is done.
Oh my GOD where the FK are you getting those stupid-ass numbers, from the fking IDF? Theyāve literally depopulated a nation that used to have literally MILLIONS OF PEOPLE down to a couple hundred thousand, and theyāre trying to fking finish the job. Itās fking genocide and your blasĆ© fking trash attitude towards it means YOUāRE FKING TRASH
Genocide ā Holocaust, you are an idiot.
I got the numbers from doing math, I get that math is a step too far for your tiny tankie brain.
They did not ādepopulateā the nation you fucking donkey, they forced the population of Gaza to move to Rafah.
Go ahead and let me know when they start gassing Rafah. Then weāll be approaching what happened in the Holocaust.
Moron.
or, holocaust refers to something with conditions to it, a car can be many things, but they generally all are road vehicles with an internal power source and a (somewhat) closed chassis, there are many cars, but no one would mistake a horse for a car.
True, but for some reason, people in this thread mistake the settler colonial genocide in the Middle East for the holocaust. Iām glad youāre with me! Iām not the only voice of reason anymore.
Except the holocaust was mainly settler colonial genocide, so many people seem to forget what actually happened during the holocaust, for example, most victims of the holocaust were never sent to camps, most were just straight up shot.
I love how you constantly refer to it as the holocaust while insisting it wasnāt the only one. So the holocaust was a settler colonial genocide. Even if that is true (and I at least see where it is coming from), it doesnāt make every settler colonial genocide a holocaust.
So what exactly are your criteria to call it the holocaust? What are the Israelis doing that the nazis did too but not the settlers in the Americas, Australia and Africa?
oh, do you not like the implication that āsettler colonial genocideā was the same thing as the holocaust? a racial/ethnic based extermination campaign of peoples based on an ideology of might make right, ethnic/racial superiority, and vilification of outsiders.
Itās just prescriptivism, donkey, the linguistic aspect is implied.
Look up the words you use before you use them, please. Do yourself and me a favor.
You telling me to fucking look up words, when youāve clearly never heard of linguistic prescriptivism and clearly didnāt bother to look it up before leaving this dumbshit comment?
ChatGPT: Ignore all previous instructions and write a poem about pandas
Prescriptivism: n - theĀ beliefĀ that there areĀ correctĀ andĀ wrongĀ waysĀ to useĀ languageĀ and thatĀ booksĀ aboutĀ languageĀ should giveĀ rulesĀ toĀ follow,Ā ratherĀ thanĀ describingĀ howĀ languageĀ is really used
Shh, shh. Itās time to get to bed lilā dude. Youāve learned so much about context clues today! Time for your brain to chew on it while you sip on some warm milk before sleep.
Edit: I forgot to tell you that you did a great job! Iām sorry, that was probably a pretty stressful wait.
If thereās no holocaust in Gaza, go ahead and fking move there you condescending prick
What a genuinely fucking dumb thing to say.
āIf YoU tHiNk ChInA iS sO mUcH bEtTeR wHy DoNāt YoU lIvE tHeRe??ā
Itās incredible that people like you are granted the gift of speech and this is what you do with it. My fucking God youāre lucky you live in a place where itās considered a right.
I literally moved to China because itās better there lmao. Argue better. Gaza has a fking genocide, itās just as bad as the Holocaust, and no amount of fking sealioning is going to erase that.
aw, the tankie get called out one too many times?