Higher speed limits are coming. But the case against them isn’t based on road safety alone – claims of increased economic efficiency are not supported by the evidence, either.
Speed limits are not bs. The energy of kinetic motion increases with the square of the velocity. Double the speed, quadruple the amount of energy. That matters.
Speed limits are arbitrary factors set in place that don’t make sense for the roads they’re on. They do nothing for safety, and often become a speed target. If you want to reduce speed of cars (which I agree is a good thing) the best way to do so is to make traveling above a certain speed feel dangerous to the driver. Chicanes, medians, and narrow lanes encourage that. Speed limits do not.
The limit should be the enforceable and safe speed for the road, the road design should reflect the desired speedlimit.
My area recently built highway bypasses around town. One section is built exactly like a freeway but they slapped a 60 km/h sign on it. Nobody does 60 km/h because the road feels like, and is designed for, 100 km/h. This is the wrong way to do it. If a road is a 60 km/h zone, the lanes should be more narrow and the banking on the turns should not allow average drivers to feel safe at 120 km/h.
I disagree. But not necessarily for the reasons you might think.
I’d be on the side of doing Autobahn-style limits that are adjusted to traffic and road conditions. I’ve done over 100 on the Autobahn and it’s fine.
Why do I disagree? Because we as Americans on the roadway are fucking idiots. People don’t maintain their cars. People put stupid mods on, like lifted trucks, super-wide off-road tires, stanced cars, people staring at cellphones or watching videos. Mods that significantly change handling, rollover risk, and stopping distances. There’s always some asshole who has to drive like the road is a personal racetrack. There’s always people completely disregarding the “keep right except to pass” rules.
Why do high- or no-speed limits work on the Autobahn? Because of rigid rules that enforce compliance with vehicle safety and behavior on the roadway.
Americans have too much of a fuck-you attitude about rules, especially about their cars. They literally couldn’t handle the freedom of a no-speed-limit road, there’d be daily catastrophes.
Hah, no…that lane is loaded with trucks going slow. The middle lane is fine for 100+ (mph…not kmh) if you can find a spot. Got the crap scared out of me in a no-limit zone when a supercar blasted by doing 150 easy in the left lane. The rule absolutely applies there, stay the heck out of the left lane unless passing! And keep an eye on your rear view in a no limit zone, people haul ass.
I didn’t want to be pedantic and list every possible variance. There is no perfect system. Yes, of course, there are going to be people on the Autobahn driving stupid, using phones, and in less-than-stellar cars. However, implementing autobahn-style speeds and the rules needed to make it work would never fly in the US.
Having watched drivers in a traffic backup on the Autobahn neatly organize themselves to leave a lane empty for emergency vehicles even though there were no emergency vehicles in the vicinity, my conclusion is that there’s no fucking way that American drivers have the discipline or sense of social responsibility necessary to handle Autobhan-style driving.
IMO (at least for highways) the most important rule that should be enforced is lane usage. Having everyone focused on the speed limit creates a situation where the people who rigidly follow them (while somehow still ignoring the one about keeping right if you’re not passing) end up spread across all lanes going the same speed while the people wanting to exceed the speed limit, many of whom are morons, end up tailgating the rule followers causing traffic congestion to bad, and creating a kind of “Frogger” situation with them weaving in and out of traffic to get by which is even more dangerous. So, since we’re never going to reach a state where everyone just follows all the damn rules. If we have to focus on one, the one that allows those faster drivers to pass by and reduces congestion would be preferable. People who want to drive a safer speed could still do so, they just need to keep right while doing it. That in my opinion is the safest way to go about it for everyone given human behavior being what it is. The day where we figure out how to get most people off the roads cannot come soon enough.
TBF Autobahn speed limits are followed sorta like America does - people go a little over, but you don’t see situations there like the US where people do 75 in a 55. More like 5 over. Speed cameras are rare, and people know where they are.
Lane discipline is huge, and Americans couldn’t give a flying F about it, because fuck the rules, and fuck the 10 cars stacked up behind me trying to pass me, too. So yeah, absolutely, fix that and traffic would flow a lot better for everyone. If you’re not passing, keep right. That’s impossible for some people to obey.
A big reason for that is so many places set the speed limit way lower than what is actually safe on that road. There’s a couple 3-4 lane interstates I drive on regularly that are just about perfectly flat and straight for 70-80 miles and they have the speed limit set to 60. Traffic permitting you can easily do 90+ on those, the only thing that makes it dangerous is the other people on the road that are rigidly adhering to the 60mph speed limit scattered through all lanes. If the speed limit was set more appropriately I don’t think we’d have as many problems with people speeding.
I’m afraid I have a hard disagree with conditions.
The road may be safe for higher speeds.
You don’t get to determine that at everyone else’s expense. I regularly drive roads where people average 15-20 over and they are not suitable for those speeds, it’s one fuckup away from a NASCAR-style pileup. People are shit judges of what is safe based on their perceived driving skill (99.999999% of which are horrible) and how important they feel leaving 5 minutes later than they should have for their appointment is.
Anyone significantly outside the average speed is the danger. Faster cars maneuver more abruptly and brake harder, by far creating more danger than those going even modestly over the limit. Too slow cars force those maneuvers and frustrate people making them drive like assholes because cars are an extension of ego for too many people.
Like I said, I’d be fine with Autobahn style limits, but there’s always someone who says fuck the rules because this road can go faster, and that’s why we can’t have nice things.
Edit: And this popped into my head after I wrote this - Even if the road might be capable of safely supporting 70-90mph traffic, cars are not designed to absorb that much energy when something goes wrong. No, “just redesign them” is not an acceptable answer. Changing to a structure that can better absorb higher speed impacts and keep the occupants alive increases weight and thereby reduces economy, and regulations aren’t going to let that happen at all.
Speed limits are generally bs, only useful for justifying police budgets. The goal should be designing roads with safety in mind.
Introducing arbitrary rules helps nobody. Not in reducing the amount of cars on the road, not people who are forced to drive for some reason.
Speed limits are not bs. The energy of kinetic motion increases with the square of the velocity. Double the speed, quadruple the amount of energy. That matters.
Speed limits are arbitrary factors set in place that don’t make sense for the roads they’re on. They do nothing for safety, and often become a speed target. If you want to reduce speed of cars (which I agree is a good thing) the best way to do so is to make traveling above a certain speed feel dangerous to the driver. Chicanes, medians, and narrow lanes encourage that. Speed limits do not.
Speed limits are bs.
And road design factors into the average driver’s speed far more than a sign with with a number on it
The limit should be the enforceable and safe speed for the road, the road design should reflect the desired speedlimit.
My area recently built highway bypasses around town. One section is built exactly like a freeway but they slapped a 60 km/h sign on it. Nobody does 60 km/h because the road feels like, and is designed for, 100 km/h. This is the wrong way to do it. If a road is a 60 km/h zone, the lanes should be more narrow and the banking on the turns should not allow average drivers to feel safe at 120 km/h.
I think you’re thinking about this backwards. Instead of ripping up and replacing the ENTIRE ROAD, just replace the 60 km/h sign with a 100 km/h sign.
I disagree. But not necessarily for the reasons you might think.
I’d be on the side of doing Autobahn-style limits that are adjusted to traffic and road conditions. I’ve done over 100 on the Autobahn and it’s fine.
Why do I disagree? Because we as Americans on the roadway are fucking idiots. People don’t maintain their cars. People put stupid mods on, like lifted trucks, super-wide off-road tires, stanced cars, people staring at cellphones or watching videos. Mods that significantly change handling, rollover risk, and stopping distances. There’s always some asshole who has to drive like the road is a personal racetrack. There’s always people completely disregarding the “keep right except to pass” rules.
Why do high- or no-speed limits work on the Autobahn? Because of rigid rules that enforce compliance with vehicle safety and behavior on the roadway.
Americans have too much of a fuck-you attitude about rules, especially about their cars. They literally couldn’t handle the freedom of a no-speed-limit road, there’d be daily catastrophes.
Just make sure to drive on the rightmost lane when going that slow.
Hah, no…that lane is loaded with trucks going slow. The middle lane is fine for 100+ (mph…not kmh) if you can find a spot. Got the crap scared out of me in a no-limit zone when a supercar blasted by doing 150 easy in the left lane. The rule absolutely applies there, stay the heck out of the left lane unless passing! And keep an eye on your rear view in a no limit zone, people haul ass.
So enforce those rules. Pretty simple.
Wow. You solved everything! Why didn’t anyone ever think of that?
Good question.
They have the same attitude about speed limits.
I didn’t want to be pedantic and list every possible variance. There is no perfect system. Yes, of course, there are going to be people on the Autobahn driving stupid, using phones, and in less-than-stellar cars. However, implementing autobahn-style speeds and the rules needed to make it work would never fly in the US.
Having watched drivers in a traffic backup on the Autobahn neatly organize themselves to leave a lane empty for emergency vehicles even though there were no emergency vehicles in the vicinity, my conclusion is that there’s no fucking way that American drivers have the discipline or sense of social responsibility necessary to handle Autobhan-style driving.
IMO (at least for highways) the most important rule that should be enforced is lane usage. Having everyone focused on the speed limit creates a situation where the people who rigidly follow them (while somehow still ignoring the one about keeping right if you’re not passing) end up spread across all lanes going the same speed while the people wanting to exceed the speed limit, many of whom are morons, end up tailgating the rule followers causing traffic congestion to bad, and creating a kind of “Frogger” situation with them weaving in and out of traffic to get by which is even more dangerous. So, since we’re never going to reach a state where everyone just follows all the damn rules. If we have to focus on one, the one that allows those faster drivers to pass by and reduces congestion would be preferable. People who want to drive a safer speed could still do so, they just need to keep right while doing it. That in my opinion is the safest way to go about it for everyone given human behavior being what it is. The day where we figure out how to get most people off the roads cannot come soon enough.
TBF Autobahn speed limits are followed sorta like America does - people go a little over, but you don’t see situations there like the US where people do 75 in a 55. More like 5 over. Speed cameras are rare, and people know where they are.
Lane discipline is huge, and Americans couldn’t give a flying F about it, because fuck the rules, and fuck the 10 cars stacked up behind me trying to pass me, too. So yeah, absolutely, fix that and traffic would flow a lot better for everyone. If you’re not passing, keep right. That’s impossible for some people to obey.
A big reason for that is so many places set the speed limit way lower than what is actually safe on that road. There’s a couple 3-4 lane interstates I drive on regularly that are just about perfectly flat and straight for 70-80 miles and they have the speed limit set to 60. Traffic permitting you can easily do 90+ on those, the only thing that makes it dangerous is the other people on the road that are rigidly adhering to the 60mph speed limit scattered through all lanes. If the speed limit was set more appropriately I don’t think we’d have as many problems with people speeding.
I’m afraid I have a hard disagree with conditions.
The road may be safe for higher speeds.
You don’t get to determine that at everyone else’s expense. I regularly drive roads where people average 15-20 over and they are not suitable for those speeds, it’s one fuckup away from a NASCAR-style pileup. People are shit judges of what is safe based on their perceived driving skill (99.999999% of which are horrible) and how important they feel leaving 5 minutes later than they should have for their appointment is.
Anyone significantly outside the average speed is the danger. Faster cars maneuver more abruptly and brake harder, by far creating more danger than those going even modestly over the limit. Too slow cars force those maneuvers and frustrate people making them drive like assholes because cars are an extension of ego for too many people.
Like I said, I’d be fine with Autobahn style limits, but there’s always someone who says fuck the rules because this road can go faster, and that’s why we can’t have nice things.
Edit: And this popped into my head after I wrote this - Even if the road might be capable of safely supporting 70-90mph traffic, cars are not designed to absorb that much energy when something goes wrong. No, “just redesign them” is not an acceptable answer. Changing to a structure that can better absorb higher speed impacts and keep the occupants alive increases weight and thereby reduces economy, and regulations aren’t going to let that happen at all.