Tariffs only make sense when you can outcompete or at least get parity with your opposition. We can’t do that immediately and Trump is like a child who never had to wait for anything because he’s quite literally a child who’s never had to wait for anything.
So how does that make products cheaper in the short term that he says it will, I.e the 4 years of a presidency?
With his proposed tariffs of 100%, washing machines used to cost $500, they are now $1000. Same machine, same features. Washing machine factory dont exist locally, and may not even exist because the margins may still not work out. Even if they intend to build one, how does that help me even long term? Washing machine prices are now anchored at $1000 instead of the $500 because their only competition has their price controlled at that rate.
How is me losing $500 dollars from now on for the same product saving me money? How does this repeating for hundreds or thousands of products help me save money while losing more money on each of them?
No, people just won’t buy that shit, necessities are by in large owned by huge multi national corporations who won’t end up paying that tariff they’ll just wrap it into the price and pass out to the consumer.
Tariffs tend to make all sides poorer. We benefit from cheap imports, because those imports serve as inputs to our companies. Additionally, tariffs on our side tend to be matched by tariffs on the other sides which will hurt exports. There’s no realistic scenario where a broad tariff benefits the local economy.
But this is a very stupid one that he doesn’t seem to understand how to work it. Let me give you one example that hit last time this asshole was in office.
My spouse works for one such import company. While it is US based it gets its metals and product from China and a few other Asian markets.
I wont get into the details as to what all they make but they provide a lot of various hardware items that you find in the large retail hardware outlets.
When Orange Man did this last time, guess what happened? They simply increased the prices to compensate and pushed all that down the line to consumers. When the bottom dollar got bad enough they laid off employees.
Same thing happened at some of the other companies she worked with.
Thing is the US hardly manufacture anything, anymore. In fact a lot of the metals and other stuff we no longer mine. It’s easy to say ‘This makes sense’ well no, it doesn’t - he is running his mouth again to get votes without considering the long term effects of how it will damage the economy even worse.
You’re only looking at and mentioning the short term effect, not any long term effects, and then criticizing others for the same thing. The long term effect is inefficient businesses like your spouses company shuts down, and local production increases at all levels.
Global ecomonies are incompatible with life on Earth, as we have learned.
It’s a wild claim that companies that have to pay fair value for their materials and labor either close or find more local resources to continue operation?
So your data is “I’m just guessing it works that way.” Neat.
My main issue with your statement is the one you dodged addressing. To qoute:
“Local production increases at all levels.”
Please source the data that shows people paying 200% the price for required goods, and spending way less discretionary money overall, somehow makes production increase at all local levels.
I’ll even help by giving you some parameters. Remember, Trump has promised we will immediately start paying less for everything as soon as he enacts these tariffs. That’s the exact opposite of how tariffs work, but okay. Ignoring the raw stupid, can you show me data that jobs/income/quality of life of all citizens goes up in a nation that enables extreme tariffs in a 4 year period after they are enacted?
Are you purposely misunderstanding things like all conservatives do or do you really not understand how increasing import costs above local source costs increases demand and thus production?
You are either being silly or intentionally taking weird positions.
the current prices are set by the market. If an artificial influence like a tarrifs overnight makes part of the products a certain percentage more expensive, the market will readjust to this new reality. Since companies love profits, it will adjust upwards to get as close to the increased conpetitors price while keeping your advantage.
“at home” for a lot of companies is not the US. Your reasoning is poor here, companies are driven by profit not feelings.
No it’s not easy indeed, see previous point. And the competitive edge the companies have by staying in cheaper countries helps them be competitive in the rest of the world.
it worked? The Trump tarrifs stayed under biden… cause flip flopping policy is sometimes worse, and removing the tarrifs without china removing theirs will just make things worse. Did your stuff get cheaper? Or is that Bidens fault?
You are either being silly or intentionally taking weird positions.
oh i am? 😂
the current prices are set by the market.
yes. and when your competitor is not bound by the same regulations as you are, you may find that unfair, because he can achieve cheaper prices on the same market.
increased conpetitors price while keeping your advantage.
what? the current competitor’s price is lower than yours and you are trying to level the field. you are approaching the price from the opposite direction than you suggest, so what you are saying makes no sense.
“at home” for a lot of companies is not the US.
and the goal of the tariff is to change that.
companies are driven by profit not feelings.
exactly. that’s why they have no problem exploiting people and environment in 3rd world countries. if you change the rules of the game to make it profitable for them to come back, they will do that.
No it’s not easy indeed
i never said it is easy.
And the competitive edge the companies have by staying in cheaper countries helps them be competitive in the rest of the world.
yes, this is sort of a prisoner’s dilemma and lot of economic problem’s is like that in modern world. i don’t have a solution for that, but it is pretty clear that selfish strategy for everyone is not actually working for anyone right now.
it worked?
it worked, because farmers who got in trouble were compensated according to what you said. i am not american, i don’t know details about trump tariffs and i in no way defend trump or his implementation. i am just saying tariffs are not stupid idea.
the specific implementation is what can make it work or not and you can fuck up there, i am sure.
Tariffs, especially irresponsible ones like those of Trump, are just price increases for consumers in both countries and subsidies for domestic companies making an inferior and/or expensive product.
They actually do go hand in hand. Just not under the american economic system. China has cheap evs higher average wages when factoring in ppp, and a better environmental track record and future than the US.
they actually do not. whatever your business is, you can do it with or without passing negative externalities on your employees and environment you operate in.
in one case your product will be cheaper, but with bad consequences, and you have to choose one of these paths.
Oh yes, the famously non exploitative economy of China. The country where some companies are installing fences on the roofs so that their working forces can’t suicide so easily. The country were political prisoners are being used as cheap working force. That one? Doesn’t sound so much better or even different from the American economic system.
The country where some companies are installing fences on the roofs so that their working forces can’t suicide so easily.
The specific company you’re likely thinking of is famously American company Apple.
Or rather a legally distinct subcontractor that does nothing but produce products for Apple and is thus de facto a part of Apple regardless of legal ass-covering.
The country were political prisoners are being used as cheap working force
As opposed to the US where more or less ALL prisoners, some of which are political prisoners, are slaves?
In case there’s any doubt, none of what I just pointed out exhonorates Chinese mistreatment of workers in any way.
Equally horrible or even less horrible doesn’t ever equal good enough.
Did you step out of a time machine from the early 2000s? Also that second part just isn’t a thing in China.
Id recommend actually reading up on modern China, what they did to the foxxcon ceos that did cause suicide inducing working conditions, and why China will surpass the US in every positive measure by the end of the decade
Easy to do when you skip 200 years of industrialization. I get what you’re saying, and you’re not wrong, but they just happened to be in a more advantageous position to start with in this instance.
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Tariffs only make sense when you can outcompete or at least get parity with your opposition. We can’t do that immediately and Trump is like a child who never had to wait for anything because he’s quite literally a child who’s never had to wait for anything.
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So how does that make products cheaper in the short term that he says it will, I.e the 4 years of a presidency?
With his proposed tariffs of 100%, washing machines used to cost $500, they are now $1000. Same machine, same features. Washing machine factory dont exist locally, and may not even exist because the margins may still not work out. Even if they intend to build one, how does that help me even long term? Washing machine prices are now anchored at $1000 instead of the $500 because their only competition has their price controlled at that rate.
How is me losing $500 dollars from now on for the same product saving me money? How does this repeating for hundreds or thousands of products help me save money while losing more money on each of them?
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No, people just won’t buy that shit, necessities are by in large owned by huge multi national corporations who won’t end up paying that tariff they’ll just wrap it into the price and pass out to the consumer.
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Ideally that’s how it works. Economics are rarely of ever ideal and tariffs statistically do not end up working as ideal.
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It doesn’t mean we stab ourselves to death either though.
Nope. Tariffs are price increases. They don’t directly generate revenue.
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Striving toward a goal is not immediately. Immediately people will see higher prices on a lot of familiar brands.
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Our point is that you still need shelter while you build a new house.
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People aren’t arguing that tariffs are bad, they’re arguing that large instant tariffs are.
Tariffs tend to make all sides poorer. We benefit from cheap imports, because those imports serve as inputs to our companies. Additionally, tariffs on our side tend to be matched by tariffs on the other sides which will hurt exports. There’s no realistic scenario where a broad tariff benefits the local economy.
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But this is a very stupid one that he doesn’t seem to understand how to work it. Let me give you one example that hit last time this asshole was in office.
My spouse works for one such import company. While it is US based it gets its metals and product from China and a few other Asian markets.
I wont get into the details as to what all they make but they provide a lot of various hardware items that you find in the large retail hardware outlets.
When Orange Man did this last time, guess what happened? They simply increased the prices to compensate and pushed all that down the line to consumers. When the bottom dollar got bad enough they laid off employees. Same thing happened at some of the other companies she worked with.
Thing is the US hardly manufacture anything, anymore. In fact a lot of the metals and other stuff we no longer mine. It’s easy to say ‘This makes sense’ well no, it doesn’t - he is running his mouth again to get votes without considering the long term effects of how it will damage the economy even worse.
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You’re only looking at and mentioning the short term effect, not any long term effects, and then criticizing others for the same thing. The long term effect is inefficient businesses like your spouses company shuts down, and local production increases at all levels.
Global ecomonies are incompatible with life on Earth, as we have learned.
That’s a wild claim. Can you back that up with any data that shows tariffs always increase local jobs and income?
It’s a wild claim that companies that have to pay fair value for their materials and labor either close or find more local resources to continue operation?
So your data is “I’m just guessing it works that way.” Neat.
My main issue with your statement is the one you dodged addressing. To qoute:
“Local production increases at all levels.”
Please source the data that shows people paying 200% the price for required goods, and spending way less discretionary money overall, somehow makes production increase at all local levels.
I’ll even help by giving you some parameters. Remember, Trump has promised we will immediately start paying less for everything as soon as he enacts these tariffs. That’s the exact opposite of how tariffs work, but okay. Ignoring the raw stupid, can you show me data that jobs/income/quality of life of all citizens goes up in a nation that enables extreme tariffs in a 4 year period after they are enacted?
Are you purposely misunderstanding things like all conservatives do or do you really not understand how increasing import costs above local source costs increases demand and thus production?
So still no facts or data and down to personal insults instead of addressing any part of the discussion.
Have fun out there mate.
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You are either being silly or intentionally taking weird positions.
oh i am? 😂
yes. and when your competitor is not bound by the same regulations as you are, you may find that unfair, because he can achieve cheaper prices on the same market.
what? the current competitor’s price is lower than yours and you are trying to level the field. you are approaching the price from the opposite direction than you suggest, so what you are saying makes no sense.
and the goal of the tariff is to change that.
exactly. that’s why they have no problem exploiting people and environment in 3rd world countries. if you change the rules of the game to make it profitable for them to come back, they will do that.
i never said it is easy.
yes, this is sort of a prisoner’s dilemma and lot of economic problem’s is like that in modern world. i don’t have a solution for that, but it is pretty clear that selfish strategy for everyone is not actually working for anyone right now.
it worked, because farmers who got in trouble were compensated according to what you said. i am not american, i don’t know details about trump tariffs and i in no way defend trump or his implementation. i am just saying tariffs are not stupid idea. the specific implementation is what can make it work or not and you can fuck up there, i am sure.
goal of the tariffs is not make stuff cheaper.
Trump points to tarrifs when asked what he will do to make life more affordable to Americans. For the rest I suggest some more econ classes.
sounds like reasonable idea. when do you start?
Tariffs, especially irresponsible ones like those of Trump, are just price increases for consumers in both countries and subsidies for domestic companies making an inferior and/or expensive product.
So that means we’ll get cheap EVs and solar panels, right?
Cheap and not exploiting people and environment unfortunately don’t go hand to hand. You have to choose your priority.
They actually do go hand in hand. Just not under the american economic system. China has cheap evs higher average wages when factoring in ppp, and a better environmental track record and future than the US.
they actually do not. whatever your business is, you can do it with or without passing negative externalities on your employees and environment you operate in.
in one case your product will be cheaper, but with bad consequences, and you have to choose one of these paths.
Oh yes, the famously non exploitative economy of China. The country where some companies are installing fences on the roofs so that their working forces can’t suicide so easily. The country were political prisoners are being used as cheap working force. That one? Doesn’t sound so much better or even different from the American economic system.
The specific company you’re likely thinking of is famously American company Apple.
Or rather a legally distinct subcontractor that does nothing but produce products for Apple and is thus de facto a part of Apple regardless of legal ass-covering.
As opposed to the US where more or less ALL prisoners, some of which are political prisoners, are slaves?
In case there’s any doubt, none of what I just pointed out exhonorates Chinese mistreatment of workers in any way.
Equally horrible or even less horrible doesn’t ever equal good enough.
Yes, that is exactly why I wrote that it’s not so different from the American system
Oops, guess I missed that part, my apologies. In my defense, it was late here 😁
Did you step out of a time machine from the early 2000s? Also that second part just isn’t a thing in China. Id recommend actually reading up on modern China, what they did to the foxxcon ceos that did cause suicide inducing working conditions, and why China will surpass the US in every positive measure by the end of the decade
Easy to do when you skip 200 years of industrialization. I get what you’re saying, and you’re not wrong, but they just happened to be in a more advantageous position to start with in this instance.
“skip”? Not strong on history are you?
How do you think your food gets to your table?
“Cheap” is relative, stop being deliberately obtuse.