Is article mixing things or am I missing something?
You don’t need to hand over your phone to present a digital ID. At least in my country the digital ID just creates a qr that the cop can scan to verify. There is no reason to hand over anything on the whole process.
I’m also from Brazil. I chose to refuse any digital IDs: for example, my CNH (for non-brazilians: it’s our driver’s license) is physical and I used a dumbphone (Multilaser Zapp) to justify to the bureau that I can’t have apps for digital IDs (I kinda could within my other device, a smartphone, but I lied having only Multilaser as device). They can’t force people to have digital IDs, yet. Not everyone has a smartphone, it’s common in Brazil for a house/family/community to have multiple people using one single smartphone, digital IDs won’t be usable for this situation. It’s not my situation, I avoid to take my smartphone outside of home due to security concerns, so I take a dumbphone instead.
Digital IDs have multiple problems. What if the smartphone breaks? What if the smartphone has no battery when one needs to show one’s IDs? These were the factors that motivated me to refuse any digital IDs.
Of course. But if a police officer were to remove your phone by force, first it would be illegal without a warrant so it would almost made you a favour as all evidence in your phone would be invalid in court.
Then if they just want to remove by force, with or without warrant, they can just take it from your pocket. Even locked if they want the info in your phone they are probably getting it. They would have access to some of the best forensics teams and equipment.
Following the same logic, should we never have an unlocked phone near a police officer? I don’t know about that.
And if you are just that paranoid I would probably be easy to just have a second profile on your phone just for the ID. And you are the same as if having the phone locked as password is needed for changing profiles.
Even locked if they want the info in your phone they are probably getting it. They would have access to some of the best forensics teams and equipment.
I think some of the concern is when cops will use force illegally and then lie about it, so they wouldn’t necessarily have access to forensics.
Like taking your phone and go through your WhatsApp messages?
If that’s a concern you could set up a password to access any sensible app or chat within that app.
I think that is a more sensible approach. As if you are targeted by any reason an undercover cop could get a hold on your unlocked phone by many different ways.
But if a police officer were to remove your phone by force, first it would be illegal without a warrant so it would almost made you a favour as all evidence in your phone would be invalid in court.
Even if what they find on your phone isn’t valid in court, it can still lead them to other things that are valid. For instance, a picture taken at a specific place with a timestamp. That picture may not be admissible, but if they find CCTV footage of you at that time and place, you’re screwed.
Cops can and will overreach their powers, and they’ll probably get away with it.
Even locked if they want the info in your phone they are probably getting it. They would have access to some of the best forensics teams and equipment.
Sure, but it’s a lot harder for them if your phone is encrypted and shut off before you encounter them.
Following the same logic, should we never have an unlocked phone near a police officer? I don’t know about that.
You really shouldn’t. Cops are never on your side.
You really shouldn’t. Cops are never on your side.
I mean never is a strong word here. People are saved by cops every day. At least in my country. Just looking today news: women was arrested after being violent towards doctors in La Palma. Pretty sure doctors though cops were on their side.
You have to be sure to defend your citizen rights and prosecuted rights (if it even become to that). But that does not conflict to call the cops if you need to and if you are being victim of a crime they’ll most likely help you. Once again, that’s how it is where I live.
I will admit I’m making some strong, harsh statements. But I think that’s a pretty natural result of living in the U.S., a country who’s cops operate closer to a gang than Rescue Heroes. They kill minorities with virtual immunity. They racially profile people. The list goes on.
Somebody who intentionally joins a group like that does not have good intentions, or is ok with their buddies not having good intentions, or gets kicked out quickly for tattling on their fellow cops. So yeah, cops are never on your side, at least not here.
In the US, cops are legally allowed to just ignore you.
There was a case in Colorado I believe where an estranged husband kidnapped his kids from their mom. The mom went to the police but they kept brushing her off. After while the dad showed up to the station with a gun, promptly got killed, and then the kids were discovered dead in his car.
It went to the courts, and courts came back with “yeah they don’t HAVE to help you.” Of course this is overly simplified, but there’s case law in at least part of the country now that allows cops to ignore anyone at their discretion because they’re on dinner break or just not feeling it.
Also in the US, cops can tear your car up on a minor traffic stop because they “smelled” something. If they search your vehicle for whatever reason, they can decide they want to throw all you stuff out on the road, cut open your upholstery, take door panels off, etc. And if they don’t find anything? “Have a good day sir, get your shit off the road it’s a public safety hazard.” Then drive off leaving you to pick up their mess. And yes it has happened, and no not just once.
There was a case in New York where a guy was going around stabbing people. Cops posted up looking for him of course. Guy on the subway got stabbed nearly to death, a bystander tried to help the victim and took the criminal off-guard. Cops came in from the operators cab and subdued the criminal. They were watching the whole thing from the operators window and didn’t help the victim until they saw an opening created by the bystander. Literally watching a guy on his way to getting stabbed to death and only decided to intervene when they felt like it.
Also the Uvalde school shooting. Just hanging out in hallways while kids get shot, waiting for the danger to clear.
Also George Floyd but at least some amount of justice has been served there. But I’m highly skeptical it would have came to that if the case wasn’t as well-known as it was. Shit happens all the time. They have a term they love to bust out for minorities who are acting out of line. “Excited Delirium”: look it up.
I could go on, but I think you get the idea. They “can” help, but totally not a requirement.
Is article mixing things or am I missing something?
You don’t need to hand over your phone to present a digital ID. At least in my country the digital ID just creates a qr that the cop can scan to verify. There is no reason to hand over anything on the whole process.
Brazil? I do miss being able to leave home bringing only my phone because my ID and cards are all there
I’m also from Brazil. I chose to refuse any digital IDs: for example, my CNH (for non-brazilians: it’s our driver’s license) is physical and I used a dumbphone (Multilaser Zapp) to justify to the bureau that I can’t have apps for digital IDs (I kinda could within my other device, a smartphone, but I lied having only Multilaser as device). They can’t force people to have digital IDs, yet. Not everyone has a smartphone, it’s common in Brazil for a house/family/community to have multiple people using one single smartphone, digital IDs won’t be usable for this situation. It’s not my situation, I avoid to take my smartphone outside of home due to security concerns, so I take a dumbphone instead.
Digital IDs have multiple problems. What if the smartphone breaks? What if the smartphone has no battery when one needs to show one’s IDs? These were the factors that motivated me to refuse any digital IDs.
Does your phone need to be unlocked to show that qr code?
Of course. But if a police officer were to remove your phone by force, first it would be illegal without a warrant so it would almost made you a favour as all evidence in your phone would be invalid in court.
Then if they just want to remove by force, with or without warrant, they can just take it from your pocket. Even locked if they want the info in your phone they are probably getting it. They would have access to some of the best forensics teams and equipment.
Following the same logic, should we never have an unlocked phone near a police officer? I don’t know about that.
And if you are just that paranoid I would probably be easy to just have a second profile on your phone just for the ID. And you are the same as if having the phone locked as password is needed for changing profiles.
I think some of the concern is when cops will use force illegally and then lie about it, so they wouldn’t necessarily have access to forensics.
Like taking your phone and go through your WhatsApp messages?
If that’s a concern you could set up a password to access any sensible app or chat within that app.
I think that is a more sensible approach. As if you are targeted by any reason an undercover cop could get a hold on your unlocked phone by many different ways.
Seems like a good use for android app pinning, I think that locks the phone to that app until unlocked
Even if what they find on your phone isn’t valid in court, it can still lead them to other things that are valid. For instance, a picture taken at a specific place with a timestamp. That picture may not be admissible, but if they find CCTV footage of you at that time and place, you’re screwed.
Cops can and will overreach their powers, and they’ll probably get away with it.
Sure, but it’s a lot harder for them if your phone is encrypted and shut off before you encounter them.
You really shouldn’t. Cops are never on your side.
I mean never is a strong word here. People are saved by cops every day. At least in my country. Just looking today news: women was arrested after being violent towards doctors in La Palma. Pretty sure doctors though cops were on their side.
You have to be sure to defend your citizen rights and prosecuted rights (if it even become to that). But that does not conflict to call the cops if you need to and if you are being victim of a crime they’ll most likely help you. Once again, that’s how it is where I live.
I will admit I’m making some strong, harsh statements. But I think that’s a pretty natural result of living in the U.S., a country who’s cops operate closer to a gang than Rescue Heroes. They kill minorities with virtual immunity. They racially profile people. The list goes on.
Somebody who intentionally joins a group like that does not have good intentions, or is ok with their buddies not having good intentions, or gets kicked out quickly for tattling on their fellow cops. So yeah, cops are never on your side, at least not here.
In the US, cops are legally allowed to just ignore you.
There was a case in Colorado I believe where an estranged husband kidnapped his kids from their mom. The mom went to the police but they kept brushing her off. After while the dad showed up to the station with a gun, promptly got killed, and then the kids were discovered dead in his car.
It went to the courts, and courts came back with “yeah they don’t HAVE to help you.” Of course this is overly simplified, but there’s case law in at least part of the country now that allows cops to ignore anyone at their discretion because they’re on dinner break or just not feeling it.
Also in the US, cops can tear your car up on a minor traffic stop because they “smelled” something. If they search your vehicle for whatever reason, they can decide they want to throw all you stuff out on the road, cut open your upholstery, take door panels off, etc. And if they don’t find anything? “Have a good day sir, get your shit off the road it’s a public safety hazard.” Then drive off leaving you to pick up their mess. And yes it has happened, and no not just once.
There was a case in New York where a guy was going around stabbing people. Cops posted up looking for him of course. Guy on the subway got stabbed nearly to death, a bystander tried to help the victim and took the criminal off-guard. Cops came in from the operators cab and subdued the criminal. They were watching the whole thing from the operators window and didn’t help the victim until they saw an opening created by the bystander. Literally watching a guy on his way to getting stabbed to death and only decided to intervene when they felt like it.
Also the Uvalde school shooting. Just hanging out in hallways while kids get shot, waiting for the danger to clear.
Also George Floyd but at least some amount of justice has been served there. But I’m highly skeptical it would have came to that if the case wasn’t as well-known as it was. Shit happens all the time. They have a term they love to bust out for minorities who are acting out of line. “Excited Delirium”: look it up.
I could go on, but I think you get the idea. They “can” help, but totally not a requirement.