I’d really like to know more about this. Google shows that there are a bunch of people selling this, or similar things like a rainbow Gadsden flag but it’s not clear to me who is actually buying them or what their intended message is.
Is it a joke? Maybe they’re just trolling everyone?
Do they not know what one or both symbols mean?
Do they actually support the causes behind both symbols? (I saw one post that suggested it might be a different kind of “Southern Pride”)
I’m gonna start and end this comment with the same disclaimer: I’M NOT HERE TO DEBATE THE MEANING OF THE FLAG, JUST COMMENTING IN THE CURRENT USES OF IT. THIS IS AN OBSERVATION OF THE BELIEFS OTHER PEOPLE HOLD, NOT MY OWN.
Yeah, there are a lot of people who still interpret the Confederate naval jack to represent southern pride. In recent decades the nationwide interpretation changed to basically “racism”, either wholly or in part.
This (relatively) recent change means that people who want to express southern pride but weren’t racists tended to move away from using the flag, instead opting for things like using their state flags. The other end of this is racists who specifically and explicitly leaned into the new interpretation and use the flag more.
There is a (very much) smaller subset of people who want to stick by the older “Southern pride” meaning and reject the more modern interpretation. While these people probably deal with a lot of funny looks and awkward conversations, they exist. Apparently there’s a large enough cohort that feels that way and support LGBT rights to warrant someone printing Confederate naval jacks on a rainbow field.
Again, before I have a dozen motherfuckers here to tell me why their interpretation of the flag is the correct one: I’M NOT HERE TO DEBATE THE MEANING OF THE FLAG, JUST COMMENTING IN THE CURRENT USES OF IT. THIS IS AN OBSERVATION OF THE BELIEFS OTHER PEOPLE HOLD, NOT MY OWN.
See, this is exactly what I was worried about. Now I’ve got to write a whole fucking essay because history classes never get past WWII.
“Relatively recent” here means “in the past few decades”. There was a period of time in the early 20th century where (due to a long domestic propaganda effort that, frankly, you’re going to have to read up on yourself) the racist connotations were significantly diminished.
During this time period, the Confederate naval jack was more broadly seen as a symbol of Southern pride. Perhaps the best example is the Dukes of Hazzard, although this was closer to the tail end of this period.
What precipitated the gradual shift to the modern interpretation was the Vietnam war. The army was racially integrated by that time, and black soldiers were encountering the Confederate flag that their Southern, white comrades sometimes brought along. For fucking obvious reasons, the “it’s not racist” argument didn’t exactly fly with them. To almost criminally abridge an interesting and important part of history, a symbol that those soldiers may not have ever seen or even really cared in civilian life was at the forefront of their minds.
It took years for that bad experience to move the needle of public opinion. To (again) abridge decades decades of history, that experience in Vietnam “trickled down” to the public. Over time, the mainstream view of the flag shifted from one of primarily Southern pride to one that was primarily (and later, overtly) about racism.
I’m going to go out on a limb here, and say that the Confederate flag was always racist, but the people who rightfully had a problem with it only started to gain the power to say or do anything about it during the Civil Rights Era, or (as you aptly point out) when Black men became armed soldiers in an integrated military.
Perhaps it only “recently” became popularly understood to be racist, but it has always actually been racist.
I mean, a rainbow Gadsden flag makes some kind of sense if you forget all the recent associations. At face value it could be as simple as saying that you don’t want the government to tread on your rights as an LGBTQ citizen. If you go one layer deeper and look at it as a symbol of the fight for freedom during the American revolution, it still works - Freedom for LGBTQ people to be who they are.
I’d really like to know more about this. Google shows that there are a bunch of people selling this, or similar things like a rainbow Gadsden flag but it’s not clear to me who is actually buying them or what their intended message is.
Is it a joke? Maybe they’re just trolling everyone?
Do they not know what one or both symbols mean?
Do they actually support the causes behind both symbols? (I saw one post that suggested it might be a different kind of “Southern Pride”)
I have no idea what the context is and would love to know too.
It has to be some sort of trolling, right? Maybe college kids?
I’m gonna start and end this comment with the same disclaimer: I’M NOT HERE TO DEBATE THE MEANING OF THE FLAG, JUST COMMENTING IN THE CURRENT USES OF IT. THIS IS AN OBSERVATION OF THE BELIEFS OTHER PEOPLE HOLD, NOT MY OWN.
Yeah, there are a lot of people who still interpret the Confederate naval jack to represent southern pride. In recent decades the nationwide interpretation changed to basically “racism”, either wholly or in part.
This (relatively) recent change means that people who want to express southern pride but weren’t racists tended to move away from using the flag, instead opting for things like using their state flags. The other end of this is racists who specifically and explicitly leaned into the new interpretation and use the flag more.
There is a (very much) smaller subset of people who want to stick by the older “Southern pride” meaning and reject the more modern interpretation. While these people probably deal with a lot of funny looks and awkward conversations, they exist. Apparently there’s a large enough cohort that feels that way and support LGBT rights to warrant someone printing Confederate naval jacks on a rainbow field.
Again, before I have a dozen motherfuckers here to tell me why their interpretation of the flag is the correct one: I’M NOT HERE TO DEBATE THE MEANING OF THE FLAG, JUST COMMENTING IN THE CURRENT USES OF IT. THIS IS AN OBSERVATION OF THE BELIEFS OTHER PEOPLE HOLD, NOT MY OWN.
“I assert that the Confederate flag only changed to meaning ‘racist’ recently. I will not elaborate further.”
See, this is exactly what I was worried about. Now I’ve got to write a whole fucking essay because history classes never get past WWII.
“Relatively recent” here means “in the past few decades”. There was a period of time in the early 20th century where (due to a long domestic propaganda effort that, frankly, you’re going to have to read up on yourself) the racist connotations were significantly diminished.
During this time period, the Confederate naval jack was more broadly seen as a symbol of Southern pride. Perhaps the best example is the Dukes of Hazzard, although this was closer to the tail end of this period.
What precipitated the gradual shift to the modern interpretation was the Vietnam war. The army was racially integrated by that time, and black soldiers were encountering the Confederate flag that their Southern, white comrades sometimes brought along. For fucking obvious reasons, the “it’s not racist” argument didn’t exactly fly with them. To almost criminally abridge an interesting and important part of history, a symbol that those soldiers may not have ever seen or even really cared in civilian life was at the forefront of their minds.
It took years for that bad experience to move the needle of public opinion. To (again) abridge decades decades of history, that experience in Vietnam “trickled down” to the public. Over time, the mainstream view of the flag shifted from one of primarily Southern pride to one that was primarily (and later, overtly) about racism.
I’m going to go out on a limb here, and say that the Confederate flag was always racist, but the people who rightfully had a problem with it only started to gain the power to say or do anything about it during the Civil Rights Era, or (as you aptly point out) when Black men became armed soldiers in an integrated military.
Perhaps it only “recently” became popularly understood to be racist, but it has always actually been racist.
Yeah, that’s what I said.
I mean, a rainbow Gadsden flag makes some kind of sense if you forget all the recent associations. At face value it could be as simple as saying that you don’t want the government to tread on your rights as an LGBTQ citizen. If you go one layer deeper and look at it as a symbol of the fight for freedom during the American revolution, it still works - Freedom for LGBTQ people to be who they are.