Easy. Something is racist if it essentializes characteristics of a person or group, based on their skin colour or ethnic group; or if it makes derogatory assumptions about a cultural item/act/thing.
“Jews are greedy” = Racist statement
“Immigrants are violent” = Racist statement
“Asians are better at math” = Racist statement
“White people don’t season their food” = I don’t give a fuck personally (am white) but yes there is some level of racism in the statement
“Dreadlocks are dirty” = racist statement
“Israel is an genocidal state” = not a racist statement
“People native to Tibet, the Andese, and the Ethiopian highlands are better adapted to high altitudes” = not a racist statement
“white people have historically been more responsible for subjugating other races” = not a racist statement
Some things are worse than others, but the point isn’t to just shun anyone who says something bigoted. It’s to shun anyone who is bigoted and truly believes that they are correct so they won’t engage with arguments that they are presented. Or to shun centrists who argue for “finding a middle ground” between the bigoted position and the correct one.
I fell down the alt-right pipeline in highschool, and now I’m a nonbinary leftist landing somewhere between social democracy and anarcho-communism. I of all people have to believe in not just sending bigoted people to the gulag… But the trick is that no matter what, democratic platforms shouldn’t be given to those ideals. You shouldn’t be able to run on a platform of blocking trans healthcare, deporting a made up number of ““illegal immigrants”” (undocumented migrants), or fucking “being a dictator on day one”. And defending those acts also should be heavily looked down upon.
That’s a pretty good definition, but it’s definitely not easy.
How about this sentence: “Chinese tourists are loud, obnoxious, have no respect for the places they visit, and are harming our city.”
Obviously, that’s an opinion but is the opinion racist?
Another example: “Whenever I read a story about an elderly Asian being attacked in my city, it’s always by a black man.”
Racist? Or just an observation?
The point I’m getting at is you really shouldn’t use absolutes. “Never engage” sounds nice but in practice that philosophy tends to lead to ever-narrower echo chambers. Because over time, the scope of what is “racist” or not tends to increase. Because anyone who argues for something being not racist is seen as a suspected racist.
This kind of absolutism is why Leftism always descends into a circular firing squad imo. You can list guidelines, but there will always be a large gray area of context-dependent statements. When you take a subjective, variable, or vague thing and try to apply absolute guidelines to it, bad things happen.
I still think it’s easier than you would suggest. If you’re willing, please bear with me as I have a lot to say in response (as you can see)
How about this sentence: “Chinese tourists are loud, obnoxious, have no respect for the places they visit, and are harming our city.”
If they (the person in the example) think it’s inherent to all Chinese tourists, then yes. It’s racist. That easy. In this particular scenario, saing “the’re harming our city” is particularly something i would investigate. Now you might ask “well how do you determine if the person thinks it’s inherent?” And well… you can’t. Not really. But if I respond to the person with “well, there might be things influencing youe experience. Not every Chinese tourist is rude, in fact a lot of tourists are rude worldwide”, they can either respond by reflecting on the opinion and realize over a larger disussion that maybe it’s just rich tourists in general that are rude, and the Chinese tourists that they’ve met have seemed somewhat wealthier… or they say “no, they’re all rude it’s just their culture.” The latter response of course being a refusal to engage with the discussion. You can continue trying to convince them if it’s a friend or family or you’re just really persistent, but at a certain point… Some people will not change their mind in 1, 2, 5, 10, or even 100 discussions on the topic and it’s better to say “I understand your experience, but you are factually wrong, and we won’t consider your opinion for lawmaking and social outcomes”
Another example: “Whenever I read a story about an elderly Asian being attacked in my city, it’s always by a black man.”
Still pretty easy, I might ask for clarification if I heard that, but given the wording you’ve provided, it doesnt set off any dogwhistle alarms in my head. “Whenever I see a natural disaster in Florida on the news, it’s always a hurricane” is a lot different that “Hurricanes only hit Florida” or “Florida only gets hit by hurricanes”
“Never engage” sounds nice but in practice that philosophy tends to lead to ever-narrower echo chambers.
If I gave you the impression that I was advocating for “never engage” I’m sorry but that’s not my position, and it’s seemingly not the position of many of the other people in the thread. No one reasonable is saying to exile people for disagreeing on a retirement funding policy, or whether it’s better to put your child in sciences or arts, etc.etc. What is being said per the tolerance paradox is that intolerance should not be tolerated and the people that try to compromise between “everyone should have the same rights” and “I want to ban/hurt/endanger this group” or “this group’s mere existence endangers our own” should go with them.
Because anyone who argues for something being not racist is seen as a suspected racist.
🧐
This kind of absolutism is why Leftism always descends into a circular firing squad imo.
I’m feel as thought most people in the thread have been rather nuanced. If nothing else, I feel I have been. The only “absolutist” thing being said is “bigotry shouldn’t be tolerated”. Do you mind providing an example of this that doesn’t just point at the intolerance paradox?
I don’t see nuance here. I see a lot of “you disagree with me, therefore BLOCKED” in this thread and it’s unfortunate. The basic idea of yeeting “centrists” is very problematic.
From my reading, all the people doing blocking that I’ve seen were against my opinion and against the meme and were more inline with the centrist position. I would be happy to have evidence otherwise though
Cool. Great. Now define whether something is racist or not.
Easy. Something is racist if it essentializes characteristics of a person or group, based on their skin colour or ethnic group; or if it makes derogatory assumptions about a cultural item/act/thing.
“Jews are greedy” = Racist statement
“Immigrants are violent” = Racist statement
“Asians are better at math” = Racist statement
“White people don’t season their food” = I don’t give a fuck personally (am white) but yes there is some level of racism in the statement
“Dreadlocks are dirty” = racist statement
“Israel is an genocidal state” = not a racist statement
“People native to Tibet, the Andese, and the Ethiopian highlands are better adapted to high altitudes” = not a racist statement
“white people have historically been more responsible for subjugating other races” = not a racist statement
Some things are worse than others, but the point isn’t to just shun anyone who says something bigoted. It’s to shun anyone who is bigoted and truly believes that they are correct so they won’t engage with arguments that they are presented. Or to shun centrists who argue for “finding a middle ground” between the bigoted position and the correct one.
I fell down the alt-right pipeline in highschool, and now I’m a nonbinary leftist landing somewhere between social democracy and anarcho-communism. I of all people have to believe in not just sending bigoted people to the gulag… But the trick is that no matter what, democratic platforms shouldn’t be given to those ideals. You shouldn’t be able to run on a platform of blocking trans healthcare, deporting a made up number of ““illegal immigrants”” (undocumented migrants), or fucking “being a dictator on day one”. And defending those acts also should be heavily looked down upon.
That’s a pretty good definition, but it’s definitely not easy.
How about this sentence: “Chinese tourists are loud, obnoxious, have no respect for the places they visit, and are harming our city.”
Obviously, that’s an opinion but is the opinion racist?
Another example: “Whenever I read a story about an elderly Asian being attacked in my city, it’s always by a black man.”
Racist? Or just an observation?
The point I’m getting at is you really shouldn’t use absolutes. “Never engage” sounds nice but in practice that philosophy tends to lead to ever-narrower echo chambers. Because over time, the scope of what is “racist” or not tends to increase. Because anyone who argues for something being not racist is seen as a suspected racist.
This kind of absolutism is why Leftism always descends into a circular firing squad imo. You can list guidelines, but there will always be a large gray area of context-dependent statements. When you take a subjective, variable, or vague thing and try to apply absolute guidelines to it, bad things happen.
I still think it’s easier than you would suggest. If you’re willing, please bear with me as I have a lot to say in response (as you can see)
If they (the person in the example) think it’s inherent to all Chinese tourists, then yes. It’s racist. That easy. In this particular scenario, saing “the’re harming our city” is particularly something i would investigate. Now you might ask “well how do you determine if the person thinks it’s inherent?” And well… you can’t. Not really. But if I respond to the person with “well, there might be things influencing youe experience. Not every Chinese tourist is rude, in fact a lot of tourists are rude worldwide”, they can either respond by reflecting on the opinion and realize over a larger disussion that maybe it’s just rich tourists in general that are rude, and the Chinese tourists that they’ve met have seemed somewhat wealthier… or they say “no, they’re all rude it’s just their culture.” The latter response of course being a refusal to engage with the discussion. You can continue trying to convince them if it’s a friend or family or you’re just really persistent, but at a certain point… Some people will not change their mind in 1, 2, 5, 10, or even 100 discussions on the topic and it’s better to say “I understand your experience, but you are factually wrong, and we won’t consider your opinion for lawmaking and social outcomes”
Still pretty easy, I might ask for clarification if I heard that, but given the wording you’ve provided, it doesnt set off any dogwhistle alarms in my head. “Whenever I see a natural disaster in Florida on the news, it’s always a hurricane” is a lot different that “Hurricanes only hit Florida” or “Florida only gets hit by hurricanes”
If I gave you the impression that I was advocating for “never engage” I’m sorry but that’s not my position, and it’s seemingly not the position of many of the other people in the thread. No one reasonable is saying to exile people for disagreeing on a retirement funding policy, or whether it’s better to put your child in sciences or arts, etc.etc. What is being said per the tolerance paradox is that intolerance should not be tolerated and the people that try to compromise between “everyone should have the same rights” and “I want to ban/hurt/endanger this group” or “this group’s mere existence endangers our own” should go with them.
🧐
I’m feel as thought most people in the thread have been rather nuanced. If nothing else, I feel I have been. The only “absolutist” thing being said is “bigotry shouldn’t be tolerated”. Do you mind providing an example of this that doesn’t just point at the intolerance paradox?
I don’t see nuance here. I see a lot of “you disagree with me, therefore BLOCKED” in this thread and it’s unfortunate. The basic idea of yeeting “centrists” is very problematic.
From my reading, all the people doing blocking that I’ve seen were against my opinion and against the meme and were more inline with the centrist position. I would be happy to have evidence otherwise though