A Russian military blogger said that a Sukhoi fighter plane had been downed while it was dropping air bombs.

One of Moscow’s fighter jets has been shot down by Ukrainian forces, according to a military blogger with links to the Russian air force. Another pro-Moscow milblogger said that the Sukhoi Su-34 aircraft had been downed by a Western-supplied F-16.

    • sp3ctr4lEnglish
      40•1 month ago

      NonCredibleDefense is a recreation of a reddit community.

      The following is an oversimplification but its all so ridiculous it is still going to be long:

      This probably won't make any sense, internet community drama history is ridiculous

      Basically, after years of debates on reddit (and really just the internet in general) revolving around military history and precise technical and operational capabilities and effectiveness of various weapons and vehicles (think the kind of discussions that lead people to leak classified documents on warthunder forums), a number of ‘camps’ basically formed.

      You had ‘wehraboos’, a modification of weeaboo, but absolutely fanatical about the superiority of the German Wehrmact, ‘conmieboos’, same thing but for the Soviets, and on and on.

      Combined with that, you had a whole lot of people criticizing modern US equipment and its cost, a lot of them looking up to a group of people sometimes referred to as ‘the reformers’ and also sometimes referred to as ‘the fighter plane mafia’.

      These people basically claimed to be ex US military or designers of older US weapons/vehicles, who claimed their notions of how to do military stuff more along the lines of ‘cheap enough to get the job done, producible in large numbers’ as opposed to ‘immensely expensive, technologically dependent and technologically superior, but fewer in number’… that these notions made them the sort of dark horse, cool kids version of the correct way the US military should have proceeded, that they’d been ignored and blackballed by corrupt and ignorant US Military and Political higher ups.

      These people often went on RT and other foreign media platforms, and podcasts, to basically play up every technological problem and budget overrun or project delay in US military equipment.

      At this same time, both the wehraboos and commieboos were basically radicalizing politically, and becoming more ingrained with any talking points from ‘the fighter plane mafia’ types badmouthing the US.

      NonCredibleDefense originally formed as a response to the insanity of all of this, making fun of a whole bunch of people who were making absolutely ludicrous claims which could often be fairly easily proven to be nonsense.

      … Then Russia invaded Ukraine and everything went completely nuts.

      The wehraboos had basically become Nazis, the commieboos had basically become either Tankies or hated NATO so much that they sided with Putin.

      You ended up with … basically NonCredibleDefense aligning themselves with Ukraine, but also still being very critical of modern Western domestic and foreign policy in general… and getting into tons of spats with any military enthusiast that supported Putin… or hated LGBTQ people.

      So… what NonCredibleDefense is, is a mixture of military enthusiasts who are pro Ukraine, pro modern western / NATO involvement in its defense, but also politically left of center, and also very often gay or trans.

      And also very into anime, and esoteric internet memes, and video games. Because of course.

      The lemmy community is an offshoot of this.

      EDIT: Maybe a better way to explain this would be to present the example of the youtuber LazerPig, as basically my best approximation of condensing all of NonCredibleDefense into one person.

        • @[email protected]English
          18•1 month ago

          To add to that, on Reddit, there was originally /r/CredibleDefense. This was intended to be serious discussion about military topics from people who knew what they were talking about making supportable statements. Like, people cited sources and such. It didn’t always actually meet that bar, but the idea was to keep the level of nonsense low.

          That’s kind of a high bar, and sometimes people don’t want to rigorously examine everything and have more-casual discussion, so then /r/LessCredibleDefence showed up.

          /r/NonCredibleDefense was developed as the logical extension of this, becoming less…serious…and consisted of people posting memes and often making completely-inaccurate statements for humorous effect.

          NCD was more-approachable than the others, and so a lot of people wound up showing up there.

          I was not around when they formed, but did show up later, and enjoyed content on all of them.

          There is no CredibleDefense or LessCredibleDefense on the Threadiverse, currently. [email protected] is the sole representative (well, maybe [email protected] will be something like that, but it doesn’t quite deal with the same stuff). I tend to vigorously disregard the rule about not posting serious material on NCD, as a result, but it’s got plenty of memes and people making jokes.

      • @[email protected]English
        13•1 month ago

        NCD these days is a mixed hodgepodge of NATO propaganda, US defense industry propaganda, laughing at wacky military shenanigans around the world, and pornographic degeneracy involving military aircraft and other vehicles.

        NCD started as a spin off from Credible Defense, which is a community where all articles have to be well sourced, arguments well reasoned, and citations are required. NCD has exactly none of those things.

        • Flying SquidMEnglish
          9•1 month ago

          It’s the mix that confuses me. And the esoteric military knowledge. Half the time I can’t tell what they’re making fun of.

          • ℍ𝕂-𝟞𝟝English
            18•1 month ago

            Also, they somehow manage to create memes that have real world significance.

            “Cope cages” started on NCD, and made it into official NATO military jargon, to the point it’s unironically used by senior NATO generals in public interviews as the proper name for ineffective Russian anti-anti-tank measures made with nothing but a welding torch and creativity.

          • @[email protected]English
            8•1 month ago

            Yeah, I really wish that people would post context there when they post something. Some of the problem is that people see news, then promptly go to create and post memes joking about a current news item. But if you haven’t seen the news item and don’t know some of the jargon or military history or other context, it can be difficult to understand what’s going on.

            I’ve commented a bunch of times with a “context comment” on posts linking to source material.

          • @[email protected]English
            3•1 month ago

            Worked in the field once, it’s no different than other Fandom, except much less extreme than wh40k of course.

            Watch some Perun, it might help, or maybe not.

      • @[email protected]English
        3•1 month ago

        It started out as good, clean, only partially genocidal fun.

        Then the war started, and it just became fun.

        Imagine a bunch of Tennessee rednecks cheering their kids at a variety football game.

        Now imagine the game ended, they’re very drunk, and their bitter rivals are trying to get to their cars…