That doesn’t change anything. The reality is the issue at hand. Is there is a double Standard? Is it very prevalent through out our culture? should it be changed? These are the issues.
Far too often people take any form of feminism to be all encompassing of the most extreme views they’ve heard, or even that others have claimed without reason. Feminism isn’t oppositional to men, it’s not even blaming men, just like toxic masculinity isn’t about ‘‘men bad’’ because it includes problem like ‘‘men are conditioned to repress their emotions which is harmful to men’’ and ‘‘men being drafted and not women perpetuates a view that men are disposable, this is a really negative view that’s deeply harmful to men’’
It’s not about who’s to blame, who is the enforcer, where did it begin. And not every privilege is a insult to the group that has it. Women do have privileges as well, they are less likely to be suspected of child sexual abuse in professions with children, They receive far less prison time for convictions, they get favored in family court rulings. This doesn’t negate all Feminism, nor does it disparage women, these are very borad social realities, that are difficult to change. There are Feminists who have advocates to include women in the draft, there are women who have tried to put forth changes in child rearing to reduce the chance a boy will grow up to be emotionally repressed. It’s not about who is to blame, it’s about seeing a double standard and working on it.
I agree with most of what you said. However, this poster seems to be framing this particular issue as an example of men enforcing a double standard on women. If that’s not what they intended to convey then they should choose a different way to express their idea that better communicates the intended message.
I disagree. The first tweet IS right. It is male privilege that men can wear the same outfit multiple times, and it doesn’t imply it’s enforced by men, it just states that it exist. The fact that women enforce this double standard IS male privilege even when men aren’t to blame
That wasn’t what I said. I’m going to give you the benefit of the doubt tho, and try to explain it. You are somehow thinking that having a privilege in a system is the privileged’s fault, when in reality they are too a victim of the same system. Of course men aren’t at fault here in this situation, but they still have privilege in it. In this scenario that means men don’t have to worry about repeated usage of clothes the way women do, so they are in a favoured position, they are privileged. This is what it means. No one here is saying that men are the culprit of this system, rather that men don’t experience the same social pressure when it comes to clothes.
I see what you’re saying but I don’t think it truly works that way in practice. As an example, what do we call the fact that women can wear lightweight and breathable clothing (dresses / skirts / spaghetti straps) to work when it’s hot while men have to wear pants and long sleeves? Based on your description it seems like that would be called female privilege but I don’t think I’ve ever heard that phrase used in a genuine fashion before.
That, I think, is why the inference is drawn that men are being blamed for creating the situation when the word male privilege is used. It may theoretically refer to a concept that applies to both men and women but in practice you only ever hear about the situations in which men are seen to benefit. If we don’t have the other side of the conversation then it feels like that other side doesn’t exist even if it is intended to.
English Is not my first language, but I agree that should be called female privilege. The same when women don’t get drafted.
I think that inference you mentioned is one of the reasons people have negative thoughts about feminism, when in reality all it aims to do is get rid of the different social pressure men and women receive. The point of feminism is not to hate men, but to disentangle our society of harmful expectation, to make it more fair for both men AND women. Circling back to the clothes thing, feminism would have it for women to not be judged by women for repeating clothes, and to give another opposite example, feminism would have it for men to have an easier time entering childcare.
“Based on your description it seems like that would be called female privilege but I don’t think I’ve ever heard that phrase used in a genuine fashion before.”
I don’t get the concept that you need to hear other people use ‘female privilege’ specifically in some kind of way for there to be privilege to be applied to women, that’s a very strange Idea, white women in particular have often been used as the biggest examples of white privilege, both as the persons being favored and the enforce or catalyst of violence. You seem much more wrapped up in some kind of sectarian US Against THEM dichotomy rather than even engaging with the discussion.
I responded to another comment along the same lines here if you would like to see it. I would be happy to continue a civil discussion with you if you have more to add.
It seems like you’re taking from the phrase “male privilege” an accusation that this is somehow men’s fault. I think the other commenter said it perfectly well, just because a privilege is afforded to a group doesn’t mean that group is responsible for that privilege. It’s still a privilege that they have.
In your example, wearing dresses might well be considered “female privilege”, yes. I doubt you’d hear this talked about because it’s quite minor, but you’re not wrong. Another example which illustrates it well is “pretty privilege” - we all know that life is easier for attractive people. That doesn’t mean they are oppressing average or unattractive people personally. They just have advantages. Not their fault, still a privilege.
That doesn’t change anything. The reality is the issue at hand. Is there is a double Standard? Is it very prevalent through out our culture? should it be changed? These are the issues.
Far too often people take any form of feminism to be all encompassing of the most extreme views they’ve heard, or even that others have claimed without reason. Feminism isn’t oppositional to men, it’s not even blaming men, just like toxic masculinity isn’t about ‘‘men bad’’ because it includes problem like ‘‘men are conditioned to repress their emotions which is harmful to men’’ and ‘‘men being drafted and not women perpetuates a view that men are disposable, this is a really negative view that’s deeply harmful to men’’
It’s not about who’s to blame, who is the enforcer, where did it begin. And not every privilege is a insult to the group that has it. Women do have privileges as well, they are less likely to be suspected of child sexual abuse in professions with children, They receive far less prison time for convictions, they get favored in family court rulings. This doesn’t negate all Feminism, nor does it disparage women, these are very borad social realities, that are difficult to change. There are Feminists who have advocates to include women in the draft, there are women who have tried to put forth changes in child rearing to reduce the chance a boy will grow up to be emotionally repressed. It’s not about who is to blame, it’s about seeing a double standard and working on it.
I agree with most of what you said. However, this poster seems to be framing this particular issue as an example of men enforcing a double standard on women. If that’s not what they intended to convey then they should choose a different way to express their idea that better communicates the intended message.
I disagree. The first tweet IS right. It is male privilege that men can wear the same outfit multiple times, and it doesn’t imply it’s enforced by men, it just states that it exist. The fact that women enforce this double standard IS male privilege even when men aren’t to blame
Got it. Even when men aren’t involved in it, even when they don’t much notice, it’s still men’s fault.
Thought experiment: tell us what isn’t somehow men’s fault.
That wasn’t what I said. I’m going to give you the benefit of the doubt tho, and try to explain it. You are somehow thinking that having a privilege in a system is the privileged’s fault, when in reality they are too a victim of the same system. Of course men aren’t at fault here in this situation, but they still have privilege in it. In this scenario that means men don’t have to worry about repeated usage of clothes the way women do, so they are in a favoured position, they are privileged. This is what it means. No one here is saying that men are the culprit of this system, rather that men don’t experience the same social pressure when it comes to clothes.
I see what you’re saying but I don’t think it truly works that way in practice. As an example, what do we call the fact that women can wear lightweight and breathable clothing (dresses / skirts / spaghetti straps) to work when it’s hot while men have to wear pants and long sleeves? Based on your description it seems like that would be called female privilege but I don’t think I’ve ever heard that phrase used in a genuine fashion before.
That, I think, is why the inference is drawn that men are being blamed for creating the situation when the word male privilege is used. It may theoretically refer to a concept that applies to both men and women but in practice you only ever hear about the situations in which men are seen to benefit. If we don’t have the other side of the conversation then it feels like that other side doesn’t exist even if it is intended to.
English Is not my first language, but I agree that should be called female privilege. The same when women don’t get drafted. I think that inference you mentioned is one of the reasons people have negative thoughts about feminism, when in reality all it aims to do is get rid of the different social pressure men and women receive. The point of feminism is not to hate men, but to disentangle our society of harmful expectation, to make it more fair for both men AND women. Circling back to the clothes thing, feminism would have it for women to not be judged by women for repeating clothes, and to give another opposite example, feminism would have it for men to have an easier time entering childcare.
“Based on your description it seems like that would be called female privilege but I don’t think I’ve ever heard that phrase used in a genuine fashion before.”
I don’t get the concept that you need to hear other people use ‘female privilege’ specifically in some kind of way for there to be privilege to be applied to women, that’s a very strange Idea, white women in particular have often been used as the biggest examples of white privilege, both as the persons being favored and the enforce or catalyst of violence. You seem much more wrapped up in some kind of sectarian US Against THEM dichotomy rather than even engaging with the discussion.
What gives you the impression they are framing it that way?
I responded to another comment along the same lines here if you would like to see it. I would be happy to continue a civil discussion with you if you have more to add.
It seems like you’re taking from the phrase “male privilege” an accusation that this is somehow men’s fault. I think the other commenter said it perfectly well, just because a privilege is afforded to a group doesn’t mean that group is responsible for that privilege. It’s still a privilege that they have.
In your example, wearing dresses might well be considered “female privilege”, yes. I doubt you’d hear this talked about because it’s quite minor, but you’re not wrong. Another example which illustrates it well is “pretty privilege” - we all know that life is easier for attractive people. That doesn’t mean they are oppressing average or unattractive people personally. They just have advantages. Not their fault, still a privilege.