The thing about voting for Harris is that if she wins while endorsing genocide it signals to the DNC that their constituents are either pushovers who can’t make demands of their elites or okay with genocide. There’s a very real argument that setting this precedent is going to be worse for America than four years of Trump with a Democrat Senate (assuming democrat voters don’t drop the ball on Senate elections) that’s doing opposition instead of cheering on the genocide. If the Dems know they can ignore their constituents and win, they’ll pander a lot more to Republicans and hasten the decay of American democracy.
Note: I say genocide because this is the most important issue to Muslim voters, but it could be immigration, the lack of a primary, or any other DNC nonsense this election cycle.
The thing about voting for Harris is that if she wins while endorsing genocide it signals to the DNC that their constituents are either pushovers who can’t make demands of their elites or okay with genocide.
Centrists know this. They’re angry because progressives are not pushovers who are ok with genocide.
We need a competitive primary in 2028. We didn’t get one this year.
No, centrists who are against the genocide are over here thinking, you’re cutting off your nose to spite your face. The president isn’t a dictator, the country isn’t a monolith, and you don’t understand how the three chambers of US government works.
But hey maybe that’s the point, you’d rather destroy the system and get a dictator. I love having the freedom I have and it’s served me pretty well these years. I support the cause, but I’m not willing to walk with you if it means the end of democracy.
I’ll ask: What’s your plan when another Trump surfaces for years later? Will you still say vote blue no matter who? What about the four years after? Do you think the Democrats will listen to a constituency that will vote blue while they ignore them and refuse to even hold a primary?
What’s your plan when Trump wins this time? Why won’t that plan still work in 4 years if another Trump does surface? Unless you don’t have a plan and just want to rip the band aid off to get it over with. I don’t like how the DNC operates and we need to work to change it but if Trump gets elected with no plan in place to control him he will just wipe Gaza off the map and build a golf course where it used to be.
I mean I’m not American so my plan is to watch either way, but I’d hope the plan is to pressure the DNC to push actually electable candidates, hold real primaries and not ignore their constituents. I mean, I don’t expect that to happen because Democrat voters have proven time and time again to be spineless and incapable of organizing—which is what allows the DNC to get away with this nonsense—but that’s what I’d do if I was a politically active American.
Why won’t that plan still work in 4 years if another Trump does surface?
The current DNC and Democrat voters’ unwillingness to challenge it create an inherently unsustainable system that will only end with a Trump victory and the erasure of democracy (likely) or the DNC managing to push through the waves of Trumps while moving rightwards, picking up Republican policies while not allowing democracy to function until America effectively ceases to be a democracy (unlikely due to the first possibility, but possible). That’s my problem with the “shut up and vote for her” stuff: It assumes that there’s a light at the end of the bootlicking tunnel. Y’all need a way to get the DNC back on track and you need it fast, because this is a version of the gambler’s ruin where instead of money you’re gambling democracy and, to make matters worse, lose democracy even if you win the bet.
I mean I’m not American so my plan is to watch either way
So you don’t really have a stake in this.
Y’all need a way to get the DNC back on track and you need it fast, because this is a version of the gambler’s ruin where instead of money you’re gambling democracy and, to make matters worse, lose democracy even if you win the bet.
No, you’re the one gambling democracy because Trump winning right now would guarantee an attack on all the institutions we have in place to try and maintain democracy in the US. If you’re confident those institutions will hold and be able to curtail Trumps plans to subvert democracy then sure, none of this matters. But if you aren’t confident in the US Supreme Court and Congress then it’s foolish to think Trump will just leave after 4 years if he wins this time.
No, you’re the one gambling democracy because Trump winning right now would guarantee an attack on all the institutions we have in place to try and maintain democracy in the US.
That’s not what I meant when I said gambling democracy. Lemme just…
In statistics, gambler’s ruin is the fact that a gambler playing a game with negative expected value will eventually go bankrupt, regardless of their betting system.
If you, on average, lose democracy every election, then you need to change the game you’re playing or you’ll eventually arrive at bankruptcy (aka fascism), and I don’t see anyone talking about changing the game. It’s all avoid Trump but yeah, then what?
I get what you meant but what you’re proposing is just losing democracy all at once vs bit by bit. At least one option gives us more time to find a solution. This isn’t just a philosophical question for a lot of people, maybe it can be for you and that’s great, I’m glad you aren’t concerned about a Trump presidency.
Call them and donate to causes that advocate for what I believe in (SLPC, NAACP, CCL, EFF, etc)
Call them and donate to causes that advocate for ranked choice voting or something better than FPTP
Throw my hat in the ring one day
I can’t control what others do, I can only strive to influence others. So to entertain the question, if a dictator gets elected - I will fight, I will protest (and have) up until the point that I can’t or it no longer presents as a viable option for change. And if we do ever get to that point, then I’d reassess my options.
And as for your ignore constituency statement, I get it. I didn’t like the way it went down either. The timing was terrible - I was with Joe up until that disastrous debate and then yea, I started to call people and voice my concern. I responded to survey saying he was unfit. Morale was low. The powers that be decided on Kamala, and I stand by much of her platform. I liked her as a top candidate in 2016.
And I’ll just present you with this idea. Wouldn’t it be so lovely to bookend this racist moron and all of his racist followers with a black man preceding him and a black woman after? I think that gives me a little bit of hope and faith in America.
I guess I just don’t have enough faith in democrat voters to do anything like this in large enough numbers, but I hope for the sake of the rest of the world that they do.
The thing about voting for Harris is that if she wins while endorsing genocide it signals to the DNC that their constituents are either pushovers who can’t make demands of their elites or okay with genocide. There’s a very real argument that setting this precedent is going to be worse for America than four years of Trump with a Democrat Senate (assuming democrat voters don’t drop the ball on Senate elections) that’s doing opposition instead of cheering on the genocide. If the Dems know they can ignore their constituents and win, they’ll pander a lot more to Republicans and hasten the decay of American democracy.
Note: I say genocide because this is the most important issue to Muslim voters, but it could be immigration, the lack of a primary, or any other DNC nonsense this election cycle.
Centrists know this. They’re angry because progressives are not pushovers who are ok with genocide.
We need a competitive primary in 2028. We didn’t get one this year.
No, centrists who are against the genocide are over here thinking, you’re cutting off your nose to spite your face. The president isn’t a dictator, the country isn’t a monolith, and you don’t understand how the three chambers of US government works.
But hey maybe that’s the point, you’d rather destroy the system and get a dictator. I love having the freedom I have and it’s served me pretty well these years. I support the cause, but I’m not willing to walk with you if it means the end of democracy.
Don’t exist.
Already voted for Harris.
Already. Voted. For. Harris.
Whose?
I already voted for Harris.
I’ll ask: What’s your plan when another Trump surfaces for years later? Will you still say vote blue no matter who? What about the four years after? Do you think the Democrats will listen to a constituency that will vote blue while they ignore them and refuse to even hold a primary?
What’s your plan when Trump wins this time? Why won’t that plan still work in 4 years if another Trump does surface? Unless you don’t have a plan and just want to rip the band aid off to get it over with. I don’t like how the DNC operates and we need to work to change it but if Trump gets elected with no plan in place to control him he will just wipe Gaza off the map and build a golf course where it used to be.
I mean I’m not American so my plan is to watch either way, but I’d hope the plan is to pressure the DNC to push actually electable candidates, hold real primaries and not ignore their constituents. I mean, I don’t expect that to happen because Democrat voters have proven time and time again to be spineless and incapable of organizing—which is what allows the DNC to get away with this nonsense—but that’s what I’d do if I was a politically active American.
The current DNC and Democrat voters’ unwillingness to challenge it create an inherently unsustainable system that will only end with a Trump victory and the erasure of democracy (likely) or the DNC managing to push through the waves of Trumps while moving rightwards, picking up Republican policies while not allowing democracy to function until America effectively ceases to be a democracy (unlikely due to the first possibility, but possible). That’s my problem with the “shut up and vote for her” stuff: It assumes that there’s a light at the end of the bootlicking tunnel. Y’all need a way to get the DNC back on track and you need it fast, because this is a version of the gambler’s ruin where instead of money you’re gambling democracy and, to make matters worse, lose democracy even if you win the bet.
So you don’t really have a stake in this.
No, you’re the one gambling democracy because Trump winning right now would guarantee an attack on all the institutions we have in place to try and maintain democracy in the US. If you’re confident those institutions will hold and be able to curtail Trumps plans to subvert democracy then sure, none of this matters. But if you aren’t confident in the US Supreme Court and Congress then it’s foolish to think Trump will just leave after 4 years if he wins this time.
That’s not what I meant when I said gambling democracy. Lemme just…
If you, on average, lose democracy every election, then you need to change the game you’re playing or you’ll eventually arrive at bankruptcy (aka fascism), and I don’t see anyone talking about changing the game. It’s all avoid Trump but yeah, then what?
I get what you meant but what you’re proposing is just losing democracy all at once vs bit by bit. At least one option gives us more time to find a solution. This isn’t just a philosophical question for a lot of people, maybe it can be for you and that’s great, I’m glad you aren’t concerned about a Trump presidency.
Sure, my plan:
I can’t control what others do, I can only strive to influence others. So to entertain the question, if a dictator gets elected - I will fight, I will protest (and have) up until the point that I can’t or it no longer presents as a viable option for change. And if we do ever get to that point, then I’d reassess my options.
And as for your ignore constituency statement, I get it. I didn’t like the way it went down either. The timing was terrible - I was with Joe up until that disastrous debate and then yea, I started to call people and voice my concern. I responded to survey saying he was unfit. Morale was low. The powers that be decided on Kamala, and I stand by much of her platform. I liked her as a top candidate in 2016.
And I’ll just present you with this idea. Wouldn’t it be so lovely to bookend this racist moron and all of his racist followers with a black man preceding him and a black woman after? I think that gives me a little bit of hope and faith in America.
I guess I just don’t have enough faith in democrat voters to do anything like this in large enough numbers, but I hope for the sake of the rest of the world that they do.