It is impenetrable jargon. Inadvertently or otherwise, it is being used by the enlightened few as a stick with which to beat the (supposed) ignorant bigoted masses. A lot of people find this deeply annoying and objectionable. Addendum: To be clear, that includes me and I am not “cis het”.
If you tell Americans outside cosmopolitan cities they must declare themselves publicly as “cis het” or else they’re a bigot (I caricature but only slightly), then you should expect to lose elections.
And American elections tend to affect other people in the world. That’s why lots of us wish you would let up a bit on this nonsense.
Idiots thinking that because influencers tell them to feel that way =/= it happening, because it’s not
People are choosing to use those terms and spots for them are being added to things, this isn’t the same as “use them or you’re a bigot” at all and you know it
IIRC a quarter of the Republican ad spending was on that single ad, “The Democrats are for ‘they/them’, Trump is for YOU”. It was that effective.
I don’t care much who is right morally. America’s culture wars are almost an irrelevance to me as a foreigner. I care because it’s skewing American elections. Trump is about to pull out of the climate accord and it will be partly because of this. That is just a crazy situation. You guys need to turn down the temperature. On the Democrat side that means less moralizing and hectoring because it is very visibly driving the other side crazy. It’s not worth it.
IIRC a quarter of the Republican ad spending was on that single ad, “The Democrats are for ‘they/them’, Trump is for YOU”. It was that effective.
Ok, tell me how that’s the Dems calling anyone who isn’t straightforward with their pronouns a bigot. Oh, wait, it’s an argument being made by the party of lies? Then why blame the Democrats?
I don’t care much who is right morally
Cool, I’ll mentally keep you with the other people who think that: Trump supporter. Considering your other points I don’t believe you aren’t one, whether you live here or not, you sure as fuck act like one
Say something valid, then. I also live in the middle of rural dipshitville so acting like I’m some elite is a swing and a miss
even to the point of saying what people are experiencing isn’t happening
Just keep saying it’s happening without proof, that’ll make it true! Nobody is being called a bigot for not prefacing what they say with their pronouns, people are upset that the option is there at all for people to use because they’re suuuuuper insecure
Why do so many people feel that way?
Grifters in the media telling them lies, pretty simple. Well that and gear of change and normal homophobia
Maybe what they are trying to say is that most everyday folks don’t use those terms in any normal conversation. I’ve never used those terms myself and haven’t heard them in any conversation I can recall outside of the Internet.
Maybe what they are trying to say is that most everyday folks don’t use those terms in any normal conversation
Then say that and not that they’re “impenetrable jargon”, because saying what they said makes you come across as so stupid it’s unbelievable and wraps around to “too obvious”
I’ve never used those terms myself and haven’t heard them in any conversation I can recall outside of the Internet.
Yeah, because they’re not actually all that relevant to normal life, but online it’s far easier and simpler to put them out there so people can properly address you in the anonymous internet. Also being put into games and shit for representation, which is likely included in what the person was whinging about
So long as it isn’t attempting to refurbish words that are still in common use and already have common meanings, I usually have no issue with new-speak. Unnecessary abbreviations are taxing, though cis and het have become ubiquitous enough that I can almost forgive it.
I dunno. Online, it feels less like jargon and more like an attempt at avoiding any snark. Irl, I occasionally hear “cis” but most people say “straight” or rather than “het.” Just another synonym to memorize for me
You seem like a likeable person who’s trying to the do the right thing.
Personally, I would prefer a world where people did not feel obliged by social pressure to announce such details about the minutiae of their private lives. I would prefer that individuals saw themselves first and foremost as individuals and not as representatives of this or that group of (supposed) oppressor or (supposed) victim. This whole situation looks to me transparently like the result of overreach by an advocacy class that needed to find a problem that it could solve. IMO most people are not, and never have been, bigots. They’re usually nice folks trying to do the right thing, like you. And it feels to me like they are being manipulated.
Most people want to, for lack of a better word, fuck other people. In offering details, they create a greater chance of maintaining the ability to do so. This is particularly relevant for trans folks, who have a smaller pool of partners to pull from. For comparison, see the practices of gay folks, particularly in the 50s when gay clubs were basically outlawed. It was incredibly difficult to find other gay people in a society that ostracized them and prevented their congregation, so gay relationships were rare. It’s perfectly natural to want to find companionship, or solitude if that’s your thing, so people spread the word about themselves to broaden their chances.
Phrased another way, there’s a reason it’s the third tier of maslow’s hierarchy of needs. Finding your place of belonging isn’t an identical process. Sometimes it’s taxing for not only yourself, but others as well. Personally, I wish I had the level of confidence of my trans friends are forced to maintain.
That’s an interesting take. Declaring one’s pronouns as a way to announce one’s presence (or not) in a dating pool. Okay, but personally I doubt that’s the main driver. After all, in the internet era, finding one’s tribe is as easy as two taps on a screen. Gay guys can now have as much sex as they want without any third party even knowing, as you must be aware. I certainly am, indeed I speak from experience. So this phenomenon of needing to wear jargon and pronouns on one’s sleeve, I think it has other causes, mainly.
As if people stopped saying cis het would somehow reduce bigotry.
It is impenetrable jargon. Inadvertently or otherwise, it is being used by the enlightened few as a stick with which to beat the (supposed) ignorant bigoted masses. A lot of people find this deeply annoying and objectionable. Addendum: To be clear, that includes me and I am not “cis het”.
Lol, what are you, illiterate?
Cisgender and heterosexual are really simple to understand, basically every American learns the second term in science class for fucks sake
And with TRANSgender rights in the media for 10 years now only an idiot wouldn’t be able to at least make a good guess on what CISgender might mean
If you tell Americans outside cosmopolitan cities they must declare themselves publicly as “cis het” or else they’re a bigot (I caricature but only slightly), then you should expect to lose elections.
And American elections tend to affect other people in the world. That’s why lots of us wish you would let up a bit on this nonsense.
Nothing even close to that is happening and you’d have to be willfully ignorant to pretend otherwise
In polls and focus groups, the voters themselves say otherwise.
Idiots thinking that because influencers tell them to feel that way =/= it happening, because it’s not
People are choosing to use those terms and spots for them are being added to things, this isn’t the same as “use them or you’re a bigot” at all and you know it
IIRC a quarter of the Republican ad spending was on that single ad, “The Democrats are for ‘they/them’, Trump is for YOU”. It was that effective.
I don’t care much who is right morally. America’s culture wars are almost an irrelevance to me as a foreigner. I care because it’s skewing American elections. Trump is about to pull out of the climate accord and it will be partly because of this. That is just a crazy situation. You guys need to turn down the temperature. On the Democrat side that means less moralizing and hectoring because it is very visibly driving the other side crazy. It’s not worth it.
Ok, tell me how that’s the Dems calling anyone who isn’t straightforward with their pronouns a bigot. Oh, wait, it’s an argument being made by the party of lies? Then why blame the Democrats?
Cool, I’ll mentally keep you with the other people who think that: Trump supporter. Considering your other points I don’t believe you aren’t one, whether you live here or not, you sure as fuck act like one
With all due respect, I live in the Midwest and run with some rather blue-collar people in a completely blue, large city.
Everyone feels as though the Democrats have stopped listening to them and have been yelling at them for the last 10 years.
And just the mere fact that you are probably going to have the knee jerk reaction and call me an ignorant bigot is part of the problem.
Feel all they want, its not true not is what was being discussed actually even happening, but go off
Pre-defending yourself just shows you know you’re full of it
There you go not listening again, even to the point of saying what people are experiencing isn’t happening.
So let’s say it’s not happening. Why do so many people feel that way?
Say something valid, then. I also live in the middle of rural dipshitville so acting like I’m some elite is a swing and a miss
Just keep saying it’s happening without proof, that’ll make it true! Nobody is being called a bigot for not prefacing what they say with their pronouns, people are upset that the option is there at all for people to use because they’re suuuuuper insecure
Grifters in the media telling them lies, pretty simple. Well that and gear of change and normal homophobia
Maybe what they are trying to say is that most everyday folks don’t use those terms in any normal conversation. I’ve never used those terms myself and haven’t heard them in any conversation I can recall outside of the Internet.
Then say that and not that they’re “impenetrable jargon”, because saying what they said makes you come across as so stupid it’s unbelievable and wraps around to “too obvious”
Yeah, because they’re not actually all that relevant to normal life, but online it’s far easier and simpler to put them out there so people can properly address you in the anonymous internet. Also being put into games and shit for representation, which is likely included in what the person was whinging about
So long as it isn’t attempting to refurbish words that are still in common use and already have common meanings, I usually have no issue with new-speak. Unnecessary abbreviations are taxing, though cis and het have become ubiquitous enough that I can almost forgive it.
Agreed. Much better to introduce new jargon than to insidiously repurpose existing language. This is the point Orwell made.
But it’s jargon nonetheless. It’s exclusionary by definition.
I dunno. Online, it feels less like jargon and more like an attempt at avoiding any snark. Irl, I occasionally hear “cis” but most people say “straight” or rather than “het.” Just another synonym to memorize for me
You seem like a likeable person who’s trying to the do the right thing.
Personally, I would prefer a world where people did not feel obliged by social pressure to announce such details about the minutiae of their private lives. I would prefer that individuals saw themselves first and foremost as individuals and not as representatives of this or that group of (supposed) oppressor or (supposed) victim. This whole situation looks to me transparently like the result of overreach by an advocacy class that needed to find a problem that it could solve. IMO most people are not, and never have been, bigots. They’re usually nice folks trying to do the right thing, like you. And it feels to me like they are being manipulated.
Most people want to, for lack of a better word, fuck other people. In offering details, they create a greater chance of maintaining the ability to do so. This is particularly relevant for trans folks, who have a smaller pool of partners to pull from. For comparison, see the practices of gay folks, particularly in the 50s when gay clubs were basically outlawed. It was incredibly difficult to find other gay people in a society that ostracized them and prevented their congregation, so gay relationships were rare. It’s perfectly natural to want to find companionship, or solitude if that’s your thing, so people spread the word about themselves to broaden their chances.
Phrased another way, there’s a reason it’s the third tier of maslow’s hierarchy of needs. Finding your place of belonging isn’t an identical process. Sometimes it’s taxing for not only yourself, but others as well. Personally, I wish I had the level of confidence of my trans friends are forced to maintain.
That’s an interesting take. Declaring one’s pronouns as a way to announce one’s presence (or not) in a dating pool. Okay, but personally I doubt that’s the main driver. After all, in the internet era, finding one’s tribe is as easy as two taps on a screen. Gay guys can now have as much sex as they want without any third party even knowing, as you must be aware. I certainly am, indeed I speak from experience. So this phenomenon of needing to wear jargon and pronouns on one’s sleeve, I think it has other causes, mainly.