I’ve said this before and I’ll say it again. Their racism ties are stronger than their union ties.
They voted for him for their prejudices, not for their workers rights.
They’re going to get the racism they wanted, they just thought he’d also support their unions. They’re upset they can’t get both things, but they won’t trade their racism for union support, even now. They want both, but if they can have only one, it’s racism. They’ll just bitch about this.
If tariffs are increased and migration reduced, there is a good chance the working class will get more economic power long term. The inflation will sky rocket, but so may blue collar salaries. I believe that’s i big reason why Trump won. Sometimes the gut or common sense triumphs the neoliberal dogma.
I doubt salaries will skyrocket, sure there will be more people being hired to meet domestic demand increasing but I doubt that companies will actually pay more to their employees. And even if they do I can’t imagine that it will be a significant increase when taking into account the inflation that will be caused.
The tariffs don’t mean that there will be an increase in domestic production. It means manufacturers will seek out a different source for cheap materials. If those happen to be domestic, that’s good. Most likely they will be from some other nation like India.
Yeah I agree, I was just looking at it from the best case scenario that might lead to salary increases to show that even then it probably won’t happen.
The supply and demand should at least be in favor of blue collar. But there might be a lot of political repression and union busting. Still, there will for sure be some shift in economic power, that will favor unions and the value of labor in general. Exciting times ahead. Similarities with 1920s are overwhelming.
I mean I guess exciting is one way to put it if you find the great depressing exciting. Even if it did lead to FDR and a number of progressive policies it still took around a decade of horrible unemployment and poverty to get to that point.
Yep. Things will only get shittier in the US for as long as they/you don’t reverse the inequality trend. It’s impossible to have a functional democracy with the current gini coefficient. And it’s rapidly getting worse.
At some point, from an evolutionary perspective, it’s probably rational to crave chaos, system collapse or revolution, if you’re at the perceived socioeconomic bottom. Trump 2.0 might have been that point. Democrats didn’t present a credible solution, rather they just demonstrated that they don’t understand much. Just more neoliberal globalist crap, sprinkled with a touch of welfare and identity politics. Then it might be better to just opt for high risk and chaos, and hope you get lucky.
(I know there are good democrats as well, but they’re not in charge.)
Yeah I totally agree, I’m just still holding out hope there’s some way to get real reforms that help people cause that would be the best case scenario. But yeah it is starting to seem that chaos and system collapse might be the only way to get real change. I just worry we’re at a point where if the system collapses we’ll end up with Nazi Germany rather than New Deal America.
Yeah, but the happy times in the 50s to the 70s had one more factor, that the world was recovering from an insanely destructive world war that left the US unscathed, a unique thing at the time.
China was just coming out of a nation-deciding civil war, in addition to the genocide and war with Japan, Japan had Hiroshima and Nagasaki, Europe was in ruins and was gearing up to holding guns to each other’s heads for the next 40 years, and Russia was kinda like it is now.
I wasn’t even really talking about the boom after the war, I was talking more about the progressive reforms and things that happened that helped end the great depression which was mostly before the war. The war definitely helped continue that recovery and expand it into what we saw after the war but I think generally people agree the great depression was over in 1939 which was right as the war was starting.
Yes, but there might be a shift in power. It can have a progressive effect as long as there are enough jobs. Everyone will become more poor in absolute terms for sure. It could lead to more domestic productivity enhancing investments, which hopefully will lead to better education and work conditions.
But to be fair, nobody knows what will happen. We’re all just guessing and hoping. Usually the poor get fucked no matter what. It’s a gamble. But the current trade balance is for sure unsustainable and it relies on military domination (which also is unsustainable).
You realize the union is against this acquisition? If this sale goes through, US Steel executives get a windfall and union members, without any protections, get to look for another job. Trump, Biden, and Harris all campaigned against it.
Union leaders at the Irvin Works in West Mifflin say 95% of their members are in favor of the Nippon merger, and many of them were at the Trump rally in Pittsburgh one day before the election.
The union leaders say they were initially skeptical of the deal, but support grew after they met with Nippon executives who visited the area during the summer. Nippon pledged to spend $1 billion to upgrade the 86-year-old hot strip mill at Irvin.
It should be. There’s a few industries you have to prop up even if they’re wildly uneconomical because we know for a fact what happened the last time nations let globalization ruin their war production capability. Hell the American steel industry is arguably the single most important industry for about 120 years and arguably the main reason the allies won either world war.
I’ve said this before and I’ll say it again. Their racism ties are stronger than their union ties.
They voted for him for their prejudices, not for their workers rights.
They’re going to get the racism they wanted, they just thought he’d also support their unions. They’re upset they can’t get both things, but they won’t trade their racism for union support, even now. They want both, but if they can have only one, it’s racism. They’ll just bitch about this.
If tariffs are increased and migration reduced, there is a good chance the working class will get more economic power long term. The inflation will sky rocket, but so may blue collar salaries. I believe that’s i big reason why Trump won. Sometimes the gut or common sense triumphs the neoliberal dogma.
I doubt salaries will skyrocket, sure there will be more people being hired to meet domestic demand increasing but I doubt that companies will actually pay more to their employees. And even if they do I can’t imagine that it will be a significant increase when taking into account the inflation that will be caused.
The tariffs don’t mean that there will be an increase in domestic production. It means manufacturers will seek out a different source for cheap materials. If those happen to be domestic, that’s good. Most likely they will be from some other nation like India.
Yeah I agree, I was just looking at it from the best case scenario that might lead to salary increases to show that even then it probably won’t happen.
The supply and demand should at least be in favor of blue collar. But there might be a lot of political repression and union busting. Still, there will for sure be some shift in economic power, that will favor unions and the value of labor in general. Exciting times ahead. Similarities with 1920s are overwhelming.
I mean I guess exciting is one way to put it if you find the great depressing exciting. Even if it did lead to FDR and a number of progressive policies it still took around a decade of horrible unemployment and poverty to get to that point.
Yep. Things will only get shittier in the US for as long as they/you don’t reverse the inequality trend. It’s impossible to have a functional democracy with the current gini coefficient. And it’s rapidly getting worse.
At some point, from an evolutionary perspective, it’s probably rational to crave chaos, system collapse or revolution, if you’re at the perceived socioeconomic bottom. Trump 2.0 might have been that point. Democrats didn’t present a credible solution, rather they just demonstrated that they don’t understand much. Just more neoliberal globalist crap, sprinkled with a touch of welfare and identity politics. Then it might be better to just opt for high risk and chaos, and hope you get lucky.
(I know there are good democrats as well, but they’re not in charge.)
Yeah I totally agree, I’m just still holding out hope there’s some way to get real reforms that help people cause that would be the best case scenario. But yeah it is starting to seem that chaos and system collapse might be the only way to get real change. I just worry we’re at a point where if the system collapses we’ll end up with Nazi Germany rather than New Deal America.
It’s a gamble for sure.
Yeah, but the happy times in the 50s to the 70s had one more factor, that the world was recovering from an insanely destructive world war that left the US unscathed, a unique thing at the time.
China was just coming out of a nation-deciding civil war, in addition to the genocide and war with Japan, Japan had Hiroshima and Nagasaki, Europe was in ruins and was gearing up to holding guns to each other’s heads for the next 40 years, and Russia was kinda like it is now.
I wasn’t even really talking about the boom after the war, I was talking more about the progressive reforms and things that happened that helped end the great depression which was mostly before the war. The war definitely helped continue that recovery and expand it into what we saw after the war but I think generally people agree the great depression was over in 1939 which was right as the war was starting.
Holy fuck you believe that too, don’t you?
What do you believe?
Interesting, but wouldn’t higher salaries be cancelled out by the higher inflation?
Yes, but there might be a shift in power. It can have a progressive effect as long as there are enough jobs. Everyone will become more poor in absolute terms for sure. It could lead to more domestic productivity enhancing investments, which hopefully will lead to better education and work conditions.
But to be fair, nobody knows what will happen. We’re all just guessing and hoping. Usually the poor get fucked no matter what. It’s a gamble. But the current trade balance is for sure unsustainable and it relies on military domination (which also is unsustainable).
Could you better explain this cause-effect relationship between higher tariffs coupled with reduced migration and increased blue-collar salaries?
You realize the union is against this acquisition? If this sale goes through, US Steel executives get a windfall and union members, without any protections, get to look for another job. Trump, Biden, and Harris all campaigned against it.
https://www.wtae.com/article/us-steel-nippon-trump-steelworkers/63085379
Says the steelworkers union organization officially opposes it, so sounds like the union leadership is split but the workers support it.
The jobs are even at more risk if US Steel goes under. Unless nationalization is an option.
It should be. There’s a few industries you have to prop up even if they’re wildly uneconomical because we know for a fact what happened the last time nations let globalization ruin their war production capability. Hell the American steel industry is arguably the single most important industry for about 120 years and arguably the main reason the allies won either world war.