On principle I want to agree with you, and I also think that there’s a point at which someone knows or has done enough that they have responsibility for their beliefs and actions.
But at the same time, we have to recognize that there is propaganda, that people tell themselves lies to justify things which they then tell as lies to others, that folks sometimes are so busy scrambling to survive that they don’t have time to sit and think through their beliefs and actions. I do genuinely believe there are many folks that are mislead and that there’s a spectrum of how harmful and hateful your actions can be.
If I think back to my own childhood, for example, there were periods of time where I held and parroted beliefs that were harmful- racist, sexist, and bigoted. I was privileged enough to have time, space, and resources to evaluate these ideas and realize their harm and change my behavior. But there was a period in time where some of these beliefs, if shared online, would have had people rightfully upset. I think there are folks out there who might be accused of sympathizing with bigotry on specific issues because they don’t know any better and I think there are folks out there who need to take responsibility for the bigotry they are causing and have clearly crossed over into being bigoted from being just a sympathizer.
Elon has clearly crossed that line, long ago. There’s certainly responsibility that comes along with action- devoting resources and spreading hateful speech on a global scale with a platform has real consequences and he deserves all the hate he is receiving. But I do think there are folks out there who haven’t crossed over that line quite yet and that there’s a gray area which some folks exist in where they aren’t causing enough damage or harm where one could be called a sympathizer due to their uneducated, ignorant, or unquestioned beliefs.
I’m upvoting, because I understand your point and appreciate the thought. But I disagree. There is stuff that’s hard to understand and or get the context right and then there’s the holocaust.
If I voice my opinion on anything I try to make sure I understand the matter. If I don’t understand enough I try to shut the fuck up. Not because I’m some kind of genius, but because I’m not a complete idiot.
I might be thin skinned on that matter due to being German though. But I refuse to accept ignorance here.
There is stuff that’s hard to understand and or get the context right and then there’s the holocaust.
Absolutely. It was a difficult comment to write, because I suspect I fall closer to your opinion than it may seem absent any context of what I’ve spoken on and I don’t want it to seem like I’m arguing in favor of being tolerant of the intolerant (we absolutely should not - punching Nazis is good and correct). The comment is more about how shades of gray do exist even if the stakes are high and our tolerance for these shades of gray should be fairly low.
One of the worst things about nationalism and Nazism is that Nazis can make people into Nazis before and without their consent. Non-consensual Nazis who were raised or groomed into Nazis are still a kind of Nazis.
On principle I want to agree with you, and I also think that there’s a point at which someone knows or has done enough that they have responsibility for their beliefs and actions.
But at the same time, we have to recognize that there is propaganda, that people tell themselves lies to justify things which they then tell as lies to others, that folks sometimes are so busy scrambling to survive that they don’t have time to sit and think through their beliefs and actions. I do genuinely believe there are many folks that are mislead and that there’s a spectrum of how harmful and hateful your actions can be.
If I think back to my own childhood, for example, there were periods of time where I held and parroted beliefs that were harmful- racist, sexist, and bigoted. I was privileged enough to have time, space, and resources to evaluate these ideas and realize their harm and change my behavior. But there was a period in time where some of these beliefs, if shared online, would have had people rightfully upset. I think there are folks out there who might be accused of sympathizing with bigotry on specific issues because they don’t know any better and I think there are folks out there who need to take responsibility for the bigotry they are causing and have clearly crossed over into being bigoted from being just a sympathizer.
Elon has clearly crossed that line, long ago. There’s certainly responsibility that comes along with action- devoting resources and spreading hateful speech on a global scale with a platform has real consequences and he deserves all the hate he is receiving. But I do think there are folks out there who haven’t crossed over that line quite yet and that there’s a gray area which some folks exist in where they aren’t causing enough damage or harm where one could be called a sympathizer due to their uneducated, ignorant, or unquestioned beliefs.
I’m upvoting, because I understand your point and appreciate the thought. But I disagree. There is stuff that’s hard to understand and or get the context right and then there’s the holocaust.
If I voice my opinion on anything I try to make sure I understand the matter. If I don’t understand enough I try to shut the fuck up. Not because I’m some kind of genius, but because I’m not a complete idiot.
I might be thin skinned on that matter due to being German though. But I refuse to accept ignorance here.
Absolutely. It was a difficult comment to write, because I suspect I fall closer to your opinion than it may seem absent any context of what I’ve spoken on and I don’t want it to seem like I’m arguing in favor of being tolerant of the intolerant (we absolutely should not - punching Nazis is good and correct). The comment is more about how shades of gray do exist even if the stakes are high and our tolerance for these shades of gray should be fairly low.
One of the worst things about nationalism and Nazism is that Nazis can make people into Nazis before and without their consent. Non-consensual Nazis who were raised or groomed into Nazis are still a kind of Nazis.
I can agree to that. People like Musk deserve the majority of beatings.