Ever since I graduated, everywhere I’ve worked has been 8-5. My current company is going to soon start expecting us to be in 7-5.
How many of you here work a 9-5 with a paid lunch?
Productivity keeps going up but so do working hours.
I saw a law office once in the early 2000s that was 9-5. And the entire office shut down for an hour, while they all had lunch together in the conference room. The phones all went to voicemail and everything. I was working on replacing a few of their computers that day. They made me stop and join them. Seemed like a great place to work.
That’s what happens when the business is structured as a worker cooperative (as law firm partnerships basically are).
That’s not uncommon for doctors offices and such
Most high-skill jobs (e.g. software dev, engineering, research, higher education) are usually flexible with time. No one really cares when you come or go as long as you get the work done. People (read, good-for-nothing management people) are trying to make some of these more time-bound, but it’s usually counter-productive. Turns out when you want creativity from someone, you need to give them some freedom.
7? to goddamn 5? I’m not in at 7, and out way before 5, and if the boss don’t like it, then that’s not a me problem. 10 hours each day as in a 50 hour work week? That would be illegal in the EU, where you can’t work more than 48hours on average per week over a period of 4 months https://europa.eu/youreurope/business/human-resources/working-hours-holiday-leave/working-hours/indexamp_en.htm
Technically I come in at 7 and leave at 4:30, but it’s a 9 hour day (30 min unpaid lunch) and I get every other Friday off in exchange. Also most days I work from home. No way in heck I’d ever go in for something like that.
OP, start job shopping. Longer hours are a sign the business isn’t doing all that well and they’re trying to squeeze out some more labor. Or a sign they’re doing well but are not interested in taking care of people by hiring enough staff and would rather you burn yourself out.
I worked at one company that was 7am-5pm for corporate office work. The company grew from a small retail parts company decades ago, but never changed the mindset. So even the office work was treated like shift work. Office workers wouldn’t even check email before 7am. Many times just hanging out in the cafeteria until 7 on the dot when they had to be at their desks. Further as soon as 5pm hit exactly, all the office workers would drop what they were doing and walk out to the parking lot with all of the other blue collar shift workers.
This resulted in things like Purchase Orders getting delayed by a day because it arrived at the approver at 5:01pm and the approver was gone. There was nearly no weekend office work, which caused its own problems.
It was such a strange place to work.
So… they knew the value of their own time and didn’t overwork when they didn’t have to?
Most office workers could probably learn from that mindset.
So… they knew the value of their own time and didn’t overwork when they didn’t have to?
This worked the other way NOT in favor of the workers. Sat down at your desk at 7:03am even though you’re not customer facing at all? Expect to be called into a conference room with your boss and your bosses boss about your attendance.
Do you work in IT and need to work off-hours to perform work requiring downtime until 2am? You better be at your desk at 7am on the dot or you’re going to get written up.
Have a doctors appointment at 3pm for an hour? You have to take vacation time for that.
There was this really odd notion that if you weren’t sitting in your chair typing, you weren’t working and would get questioned by bosses.
Most office workers could probably learn from that mindset.
Office workers would learn (or be reminded) about how hellish it was to work a minimum wage job with zero flexibility.
That is 100% not how you framed your initial comment. It was very much focused on how the workers weren’t going above and beyond to work when they didn’t have to.
Sounds to me like they were reacting to a shit situation in the most appropriate way they could.
That is 100% not how you framed your initial comment. It was very much focused on how the workers weren’t going above and beyond to work when they didn’t have to.
That wasn’t my intent to communicate that, but on a re-read, I can see how you came away with that.
Sounds to me like they were reacting to a shit situation in the most appropriate way they could.
That was it exactly.
I mean… you didn’t say anything else, how else could you have meant it? You even complained that them leaving on time was inconvenient when someone else dumped something in their desk after working hours.
I mean… you didn’t say anything else, how else could you have meant it?
I was pointing out one part of the oddness of an office organization that chose to operate strictly from 7am-5pm. If you’re asking why I didn’t explain every aspect of every perspective, I’ll say it was a 30 second post on the internet, not a comprehensive peer reviewed study of workplace behavior.
I admitted my initial explanation had ambiguity that could lead the audience to arrive at an unintended conclusion. I’m not sure what more you want from me over that mea cupla. There’s no deeper motive on my part to mislead besides my admitted initial carelessness.
You even complained that them leaving on time was inconvenient when someone else dumped something in their desk after working hours.
Inconvenient to the organization, not to the worker. I was pointing out that the organization had created the situation working hours (strict 7am-5pm), yet was suffering because of how rigidly it enforced the rule. The org was shooting itself in the foot.
I had a bosses’ bosses’ boss tell me (via my boss) that I had to work 8-5 and take an hour lunch. Told my boss at that time that I would no longer be available for lunch to do anything work related. Told him I worked over lunch to get into things quickly the first few months but I’ll play the game. Started using the on site gym to the fullest.
Do you work in IT and need to work off-hours to perform work requiring downtime until 2am?
Then you’re a chump for not doing it during business hours instead, rest of the company be damned.
Which is largely what happened, and it was very disruptive to the company, but again, their rules, their consequences.
They were still having 2 hours/day stolen from them, though.
Strange that people only worked during the hours they’re paid to work?
Salary workers aren’t generally paid for hours, but instead for the job.
So you’re saying they should have worked less?
It wasn’t a statement about more or less, but more flexible. The PO that came in at 5:01pm should have been approved, and the management shouldn’t have been so hardassed about being seated at your desk at exactly 7am.
I mean… the PO shouldn’t have come in at 5:01 if they wanted it approved that day. That’s just rude.
I work in document control, so I’m sending documents between companies regularly. Often, at the end of the week someone will dump a 100+ document transmittal on us half an hour before the end of the day. And then they go home.
You bet your ass that shit is waiting til Monday.
Oh certainly! I’m not suggesting that its reasonable for someone to drop hours of work on your desk at the end of the day and expecting you to stay late to finish it.
This was more of a 2 minute task, and not even on a Friday. Office workers worked only the 7am-5pm, but hourly non-office workers had 3 shifts. So it wasn’t uncommon that large tasks for the non-officeworkers which might be done overnight went undone because the office worker didn’t do a 2 minute tasks. This had downstream impacts to deliveries and client reception.
In any other org I’ve worked in, the office worker would maybe stay until 5:09pm to kick the task forward for overnight completion and perhaps come in 10 minutes later the next day. In this org if the office worker came in 10 minutes later (even if they worked 10 minutes later) the office worker would be written up!
My current company is going to soon start expecting us to be in 7-5.
Before I start spazzing dignity and self respect.
Can you provide more context on how this was presented to you. Also your career stage? Junior?
As mid level, they can’t really try too much of this or I will just reduce my productivity to bare minimum and change jobs. I dont negotiate with terrorists ;)
Newish into the workforce, junior role
My current schedule allows me to work when I want, so long as I work 40 hours over the course of the week. I’ve settled into an 8-4 schedule and work while I eat.
We are now switching to a condensed work schedule where every other Friday will be off.
As a result we are expected to work 9 hour days (reasonable) but also required to take a 1 hour lunch away from our desk.
Yeah, two four day weeks a month was some pretty big context to leave out.
9/80s are the SHIT. I’m so sad my current workplace doesn’t allow them. Previous companies where we had it made it something to look forward to every other week.
That sounds pretty dope honestly
That sounds similar to my work, as long as you work 40 hours a week they don’t really care when you come in, I usually try to be in the office by 6 so I can leave at 2:30
Do you prefer the shorter day and eating at your desk, or the longer day with the lunch break?
Will the other Friday be shorter, too? Because otherwise they’re getting an extra hour out of you every other week.
I do this at my job (my choice). I do 7 to 4:30 with a half hour for lunch. I don’t actually take the lunch when I’m in the office since there’s no place other than my desk to be, and thankfully my supervisor is fine with me just leaving at 4. When I’m at home I try to actually be away from my office for that time.
I do like 3 day weekends and when I’m WFH I don’t even notice the 9 hour days. Idk if I’d do it for a job I had to be in the office every day for, but hopefully it will work for you.
I’m interviewing for a job that has a similar set-up: 8:30 - 5:30 with a required 1 hr lunch break. Any idea why that lunch is required?
The hours are a red flag to me, but I’ve been a teacher for the last 6 years so I’m not sure exactly what I’m getting into. I have a 2nd interview coming up, but I can’t get a read on whether they’re trying to make sure I’m taking the job seriously, or if I’m headed into an abusive work situation. Any ideas?
If you aren’t getting a paid lunch and two 15-minute breaks during your 8-hour shift, your employer is stealing from you.
I’ve never had a paid lunch. 2 paid 15 min breaks and then unpaid lunch is the law where I am.
my dumbass state has no requirements for breaks at all. one of my jobs has no official breaks. we’ve all mastered the art of looking busy while eating 💀
Unless you are salaried. Being salaried normally comes with flexibility but gives no guarantees for breaks and number of hours worked.
That works both ways. If you’re salaried and find yourself averaging more than 40 hours a week (including lunch/breaks), don’t.
Sadly 32-40 hour weeks excluding breaks is what you get paid here (NL, Europe)
So if you get paid 40 hours a week, they expect you to average 45 including breaks. You get paid 40, though.
It’s really shitty IMO
There are two types of salary, exempt and non-exempt (from overtime pay). If I am remembering correctly, you basically have to be management to not get overtime pay. Something like being over at least 2 people and having input on major decisions. May have been more to it.
The list of exemptions is a mile long at this point: https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-29/subtitle-B/chapter-V/subchapter-A/part-541?toc=1
Basically if you’re an office worker who makes more than than 34k/year, you’re probably exempt.
You have to be either management or highly-compensated (which means fuck-all, since the dollar amount tied to it never got updated for inflation). That’s why a lot of non-management tech workers (for example) are salaried exempt, and should therefore walk out whenever they’re told to work more than 40 hours/week (including lunch and breaks).
I’m technically 9-5, though I can choose 7 to 3 or 8 to 4 if I want. I usually work 7-4 and take extra breaks throughout the day (or a really long lunch). Granted, I work for a non-profit which has a LOT less bullshit to deal with. I also have the option to work 7-5 or 8-6 if I want to only work 4 days a week. Flex time is an amazing fringe benefit.
Outside of salaried jobs, I haven’t seen anywhere mandate 7-5 schedules for hourly employees (unless it’s a 4 day work week). Companies do not like paying overtime, so most I’ve dealt with will send you home the moment you hit 40 hours.
Flex time was one of the best parts of working in government. Being able to craft basically any schedule so long as it was 40 hours and not more than 10/day was really useful.
Flex time alone was worth the pay cut I took when I went corporate to non-profit. You can’t buy time, but flex time is the next best thing.
Salaried employment exists, and there are more jobs out there than they want you to think. The employer-employee relationship is a constant negotiation, and you’re always free to walk away.
We don’t know how much time we have on earth, and you’re selling some of it in exchange for money.
They are going to keep pushing to get more of your life from you, and you need to push back to keep as much as possible.
you’re always free to walk away.
Yeah, and die of starvation or exposure, which ever comes first…
Maybe take a look around at the reality most people face before giving such out of touch advice…If your choices are between working one specific job or starving then you owe it to yourself and your family to improve your marketable skills or value
If you’re really only able to work for one particular, shitty company. You might want to invest in yourself. Learn a trade or read a self help book.
Right, that’s the violence inherent in the system. I wasn’t giving advice, I’m saying that’s the only leverage you have. You’re selling the minutes and hours of your life, little chunks of being alive, and you’re selling it for less than it’s worth. You have to, because nobody would buy it if they weren’t profiting from you. It’s good for them if you believe you have no choice, especially when you do.
My advice is always be applying for jobs. Or go into business for yourself, if you can manage it.
Don’t think that exists anymore.
I’m salaried so I don’t have a lunch break. I work from home so I basically set my own hours as long as I can be contacted from about 10am to 3pm and go to any meetings I have scheduled.
Same, it’s glorious. That said, on the other side of the coin during go-live weeks I’ve worked multiple days in a row until midnight or later. So it balances out in the end.
Yeah. There’s always a chance that a customer could have an issue on a weekend and then I’ve gotta fix it. Once I was on 27 hours of conference calls over a weekend. But as I’ve gotten better at my job those sorts of things happen less and less.
Honestly the worst part of my job is doing my timesheets and updating weekly status, but when the weather’s good I do that from my hammock with a cold beer in hand which makes it suck less.
My company was more flexible, but is getting less and less flexible over time. This correspondingly means I’m not going to be working late during crunches, by my own decision, since it’s not like they’re paying me for the extra time, or letting me take off a few hours here and there to make up for it the rest of the year.
I’m in a large company, 350k+, but our team of ~20 has different rules. The head of our team, my bosses boss, gives us a TON of flexibility to take comp time, take random days off and bill to the project (without taking PTO), etc. When my boss brought me on it was touted as a startup within a large company. I won’t say we can do ANYTHING, but outside of go-live weeks we can flex our hours a lot. Hell I cut out by like 2P or 3P every Friday.
I have never been 9-5 with paid lunch and I’ve been in corporate world since 1998. 8-5 with an unpaid hour.
Many of my jobs in software have been a sort of 10 to 6 schedule. Most of them have been pretty flexible about that so long as you attended all the required meetings and got your work done.
For the past 10 years or so, companies have gotten rather fond of 8am meetings.
I have a 9-5 job as a software engineer. Though really I can stop working whenever I’m done with my assigned work. I usually stop around 3 or 3:30.
Same. I am available 9 - 5, but I tend to be actually working 10 - 4. It fluctuates depending on how badly management wants things. And of course there’s the rotating on call schedule where sometimes I have to wake up in the middle of the night to confirm that a service my team owns is impacted by some other service’s outage. FUN!
Was literally going to ask this same question last week. Past three employers are expecting 8-5 m-f but only pay 40 hours.
I’ve just been coming in at 6 before the boss to look like a hardworking then leave at 2 so I only work what I’m paid.
That’s because you get a 1 hour lunch break. I would make sure to spend 60 minutes a day eating lunch.
I’m fully remote, with no clock to punch, but with co-workers all over the world. I try to focus most of my hours between 9 and 5, but don’t sweat it too much because a few times a month I need to be on a call at 5 in the morning or 10 at night.
There is simply no good time to schedule meetings with someone 12 hours away.
