No woman, anywhere in the world, should ever be required to wear any of these. Humans should be respected to make their own personal choices.
Sure, but many women choose to wear these and that’s fine if that’s what they want to do.
It’s also worn out of fear. People falsly believe it protects you from sexual assault.
Sure, but the vast majority of people wear it because it part of their religion and they want to.
I’m not religious in the slightest, but I support people’s right to choose.
We never seem to see people complaining about what nuns wear, which I find to be a double standard.
We never seem to see people complaining about what nuns wear, which I find to be a double standard.
Different context. Nuns wear their costume when they are serving. That’s why you don’t see nuns in full dress at Walmart.
But I see women in full burkas (always with their husband, of course) struggling in everyday situations.
If the religion requires it, it’s a terribly oppressive one. These women “chose” not to face consequences, so they wear it. That’s why there are international protests by women who call to reject these fabric cages.
No. Majority of women wear it because of sexist opression. They don’t have the real choice of not wearing it even if they believe they wear it “because I want to”.
Also, using nuns is not a valid argument, because
- it’s a uniform and
- nuns are nuns because they devote their lives, amongst other things, to not have children. Do those women depicted swore chastity and celibacy?
Neither do I care what people wear. I’m just stating a misleading factor behind the attire.
Also, I never see nuns in public.
Do you even Sister Act?
Edit:
Came back to add a serious element to the comment. I worked at a gas station for years right near a Catholic Church. I knew all of the nuns, and I can’t speak on the tradition everywhere, but I never seen them wearing their nun gear.
I wouldn’t have even known they were nuns if I wasn’t told. The one I got tight with had a short haircut and wore blue jeans and flannel. I always assumed she worked on a farm somewhere nearby or something until she told me she was a nun. My family was struggling and I was talking to a friend about coming up with the money for my electric bill. She overheard me and asked me to stop by her church and fill out a form. She told me she was a nun when I met her at the church.
That is so sweet. That’s the wholesome shit I needed to hear today.
That’s because they can fly.
Choose to because otherwise they get kicked from the family?
I would argue those are the minority of cases.
They aren’t.
It’s literally enforced by the government
I didn’t know my government, the UK, was enforcing people wearing religious clothing. TIL.
That’s a very obtuse response and the governments I’m referencing are obvious.
I’m having a discussion on the usage in general, you and the other replies have been highlighting minority cases.
I wonder if you’re so passionate about this issue, what you’re doing to further women’s rights in these countries you have issue with?
Choose and Required are opposites.
I see plenty of Muslim women without them, indicating it’s a choice for most.
Not in countries controlled by religion.
So the issue isn’t religion its authoritarianism in these countries.
Perhaps, we should fight against that rather than the garments in question, no?
Those countries are authoritarian because of religion
I don’t believe you.
Exactly! The only reason religion exists is to control the population.
What’s the market look like for these? Homemade to top tier brands?
This is not true of every part of islamic culture, but there’s an anti-western focus that is a part of a lot of cultural traditions. The idea for a lot is that if a Kafar (effectively, a sinner/etc) is involved, you shouldn’t be, so that rules out most top tier brands. I’m way out of date because I’m not close to that world anymore, but every once in awhile, you’d see a major player throw something out… Like adidas had a line for a minute that they tried to make a big deal, but I never saw any big brands that you’d recognize in any Islamic shops and I never knew anyone who had even heard that was happening beyond me. Most of the girls I knew stuck to Hijabs which are incredibly simple, it’s basically a four cornered sheet of cloth that you wrap around your head real fancy, so the focus was mostly on type of fabric and patterning, not a lot of room to establish higher tiers of hijabs/etc.
Branding as a whole kind of goes against the concept of the head coverings too.
I’ve no idea. I’m not religious so don’t really know.
I imagine you can get various tiers from cheap -> expensive.
Nobody should be allowed to say Allah without protest. If somebody says Allah in casual conversation, they should be met with scoffs, eye-rolls, and dirty looks. Muslims should say ilah instead.
Allah.
Ew.
While I typically try to avoid divisive comments in these light-hearted communities, this is a fairly informative one, especially in the context of etymology.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ilah
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allah#Etymology
We should also not be condoning scoffing at someone based on their understanding. Perhaps these could be opportunities to educate people that are unfamiliar with the differences.
I am very happy for Muslims to talk about their ilah. But when they say Allah, they are choosing to say the other gods are fake for no reason. We could be having a completely unrelated conversation about, say, Ramadan, and the Muslim just has to say “by the way your gods are fake” in a single word just to be an asshole. It’s rude. It’s mean. It’s unnecessary.
I think a lot of people downvoted my comment because they don’t understand Arabic etymology and they think I’m being Islamophobic. But this isn’t about Islam, it’s about the way many Muslims choose to talk about every other religion. And yes, many Muslims don’t know the etymology of the word either. Which is why they should be educated and told to do better. Allah is a slur. We should make it clear it’s not acceptable to say in polite company.
I also hate it when Christians choose to use “god” as a proper noun. I’ve got in lots of fights with people on Lemmy about that.
Allah damnit
Gross
Mā schā’ Allāh
There’s more than one, you ding dong. Why do you have to start a debate about the number of gods out of nowhere?
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Typical. I get my comment deleted for opposing misogynist ideologies. Stay reddit, mods.
Clothing fit for making a clear statement they are not on the same level as men. Is this compatible with modern society, inherent human needs and equality?
Easy answer, yes if they are doing it of their own free will with informed consent. People can wear whatever they want.
Hard question, does heavy cultural pressure and implied threats of violence impact your ability to ever truly give informed consent?
Exactly. Although it does get a little dicey when you factor in cultural conditioning. Some women are devout by choice—but if they grew up in the religion it’s impossible to determine if that devoutness is a truly held belief or if they’ve been essentially brainwashed. I don’t mean to say there’s some insidious plot of brainwashing, but there’s really no other way to describe deep, long term conditioning from a dominant in-group.
Indoctrination is a hell of a drug.
This is probably just cause I’m on NCD too much but does the last one kinda look like a stealth fighter?
I am torn between stealth fighter and payload tbh.
It looks cozy
Yup, and with barely any radar cross section either
Crazy how many completely different names there are for different kinds of clothing that’s sooooo close to each other.
How many different kinds of hats with entirely different names do you own? I have a sun hat, a toque, a helmet, a rain cap, one of those ones with flaps that I don’t know the name of but probably has one, and I’m sure half of you own a fedora and a trilby.
I see your point and I think the hats are a better example than the trousers comment below. Especially when it comes to traditional clothing, there’s a ton of different, very specialized hats with special names and for a 3rd person might be all just ‘hats’. Thanks for the analogy. :)
Islamic world is what - 40 countries? 50? Im not suprised at all. How many different words can be used to describe pants just in Europe alone?
Pants Knickers Slacks Trousers Bloomers Briefs Britches Pantaloons
And thats just English synonyms, how many languages are in Europe? There are easily 100 words in Europe for the cloth tubes you stick your legs in.
Pants, Knickers, Slacks, Trousers, Bloomers, Briefs, Britches, Pantaloons
Aren’t these just synonyms for the more or less same thing and not different concepts that just (almost) look alike? The pure existence of this guide implies that the nuances between these kinds of clothing are so important that you should be able to differentiate them. And Hijab and Shayla seem to me almost identical. The cloth is placed slightly different but that might have happened also by the wind or so.
There could be very specific nuances to each synonym for pants as well, and we could debate what exactly the difference is between briefs and slacks. Jeans is a good example of this, its the exact same style of clothing as other pants, its just made with a very specific textile. If you saw a photo of bleached jeans and white pants, you would have the same complaints that you have with OPs photo, you couldnt tell the difference.
OK, that’s a valid point that I agree to. But then this guide is not a ‘cool guide’ because it doesn’t give me a clue on what’s the relevant differentiator between the different things. If it’s properties like textile, color etc. and not just the cut, then there should be some kind of indicator, explanatory remark or visualisation of that.
Can men wear these? I want to scare my kids and these would be perfect
I like the one resembling a Christmas tree.
They do; to prevent their identification, smuggle stuff like weapons and conceal their real gender among other stuff.
No, of course not. that would defy physics as some know it. These are clearly womens clothing and they can only possibly be fit by someone feline of birth. They also don’t feature a penis pocket so not sure where you would fold that all up.
TIL AFAB = Assigned Feline At Birth, good to know.
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is there one word I can learn that describes all of these because honestly that’s too much to remember
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Go work on your relationship with your father. I bet you both need it.
It’s almost definitely cultural, but putting all the head coverings under the generic umbrella of Hijab is what I’ve seen.
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How the repression cloth hangs on the shoulders is slightly different, probably because of how it wraps around her scandalous hair.
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Purple hangs over the shoulders and might actually be a pull over hood.
Green is wrapped around, but only goes to the shoulders on the backside,l. Hangs in front.
Red wraps around and hangs in front but also has a hard too see tiny cape looking drape in the back.
Color?
Just guessing but 3 has her shoulders covered and 4 looks like a looser headscarf than 5.
Never heard of a Chador, looks cozy.
This drawing kind of makes a Burka look crazy, like she’s blindfolded.
Its a mesh over the eyes iirc like very shear fabric.
Honestly, my first thought when seeing the chador was this character from The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess…
As a man, it is not my place to say anything about this conversation, but I want to give a story form my life. My mother didn’t wear it until my father’s death. So I am sure that it was her choice. She was a praying Muslim and devoted before and after and We live in this so-called authoritarian state too.
Was it truly her choice or was it something society and/or religion and/or culture dictated her to do to fit into a role intented for her? What would be her reason to do this out of free will?
As far as I know, she wanted to wear it before his death, but he didn’t let her. So when he did, she chose to wear it on her own.
You need to understand that it is normal not to wear it in our society. infects some people use it to not have to Do their hair when they don’t feel like it.
In fact, it is getting less and less used as people moderniz. And people in the West get more religious effect from people in Muslim communities I know the fuckers who would go to the club and drink in here, but who will start praying as soon as they get out to western country. So you maybe getting the wrong idea about it.
so cool
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Honestly outside of protection from the sun they all look extremely uncomfortable/constraining. Especially the burka.
This clothing’s function is not to protect against the sun but to protect women against men without socialization, rape, comparison and property protection (that means exactly what is it, the women are property of their men and mostly law- and powerless). It is a social instrument of oppression and property and modern social slavery.
