As Vice President Kamala Harris received the presidential nomination at the 2024 Democratic National Convention (DNC), thousands of people marched near the convention demanding an end to U.S. arms shipments to Israel and the war on Gaza. The protesters, led by Palestinian and Jewish activists, represented a diverse coalition including anti-war veterans, climate justice activists, and labor organizers. Despite efforts by Democrats to keep the Palestine issue sidelined, the marchers made their voices heard, declaring Harris and President Joe Biden complicit in the genocide in Gaza. The protesters came from communities and movements that are often considered part of the Democratic coalition, warning that their votes could not be taken for granted unless the party takes concrete action to end the occupation and devastation in Palestine. Organizers estimate around 30,000 people demonstrated in Chicago over the course of the week, making Palestine impossible to ignore during the convention. The activists drew connections between the struggle for Palestinian liberation and the fight against racist violence and state repression in the U.S., challenging the Democratic Party’s complicity in both. The protests encountered a heavy police presence, with hundreds of riot police surrounding the march at all times. Despite the tension, the demonstration remained largely peaceful as the protesters demanded justice for Palestine. As Kamala Harris prepared to take the stage, the marchers continued their chants and songs, determined to keep the spotlight on the ongoing catastrophe in Gaza and the Democratic Party’s failure to address it.
These protests make little sense to me. I fully support the goals of the protesters. I am opposed to Israel’s actions in Gaza that are clearly aimed at a Palestinian genocide. However, I don’t see how these protests are supposed to help achieve the goal of ending the violence and suffering of the Palestinian people. In fact, if they do anything at all, they will only help Trump get elected.
These protesters should be going after every member of congress that has supported the continued shipment of weapons to Israel, republican and democrat alike, but where have they been? They should have been out supporting democrats like Jamaal Bowman who lost his primary to a moderate, pro-Israel democrat because of AIPAC. AIPAC who has spent more than $15 million dollars this season to try and unseat progressive democrats who have supported their cause. These protesters should have been out protesting AIPAC but haven’t heard a peep from them.
Now, here they are harassing the only presidential candidate on the ballot that might possibly support them if she wins, but who cannot say that now because if she does, AIPAC will drop $10s of millions of dollars to oppose her and potentially cost her the election. And that is the only thing these protests can accomplish. If protesters succeed in turning voters against Harris, where are those votes going to go? Either to a man who has stated that he fully supports Israel’s actions and that he just wants them to hurry up and get it done, or to a third party candidate who cannot possibly win but could siphon enough votes from Harris so that Trump could win anyway.
I can’t help but think that these well meaning protesters are being manipulated by the powers that be to undermine their own goals. Stop attacking democrats in general and start supporting progressives who support your cause.
My question to the people withholding their vote because of Gaza is: what is your plan to support the Palestinian people when Trump gets in? How will you be supporting them when Trump starts calling for nukes? What will you be doing when Trump decides to use the US military to suppress protests?
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Depending on which state you live in, a 3rd party vote is equivalent to a vote for Trump when everything is said and done.
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Yeah. Unfortunately, people who love genocide want the guy who bombed the fuck out of Yemen to take over next year. It’s tough to read those guys urging others to take the same position and pretending it is normal.
I’ll stand proud that I didn’t vote for the people who were already complicit in genocide
Fat load of good that’ll do for the remaining Palestinians after Trump helps Netenyahu finish the job. Why would you be proud of such a monstrous thing?
Yes, I’m “monstrous”, but not the Democrats who have happily supplied Israel with weapons to commit their genocide.
Your moral compass is broken.
Never said they weren’t, but you’re helping the even more monstrous Republicans nuke Palestine. Your moral compass is missing.
Who is going to nuke Palestine? That’s pure speculation.
Meanwhile, the current administration is ACTUALLY actively helping Israel starve, maim, and kill children
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Absolutely. I 100% agree with their goals. But it’s like they couldn’t be making worse decisions. Whoever is setting their agenda. It’s like they’re focusing on sewing chaos and discontent. And not actually getting what they say they want.
I believe the protesters are sincere. But screaming at presidential candidates was never a good idea. Harris or trump will 100% be the winners. Trump will absolutely be worse. So any sane uncommitted protestor can’t actually be uncommitted. And those that are truly uncommitted aren’t really reachable. It’s not a position of strength to negotiate from.
Pro Palestinian voters would have had more success supporting senate and house candidates that support their goals. We actually lost two by slim margins. What’s the logic of focusing on nationwide elections that are the most expensive and hardest to influence. As opposed to simple Statewide or District elections. Which are much cheaper, and have a much smaller voter base to influence. It’s the house after all that passes and funds the aid they wish to stop. Nothing about this is logical. Well unless the goal really is to so chaos and Division among the opponents of Republicans.
I said roughly the same thing, while pointing out that the OP has pushed anti voting agenda in the past and got my comment removed (I did use the word idiot).
The mods are not allowing discourse here.Meh, it’s rule three. You can say that OP’s ideas are idiotic, but you can’t say OP is an idiot. They are allowing discourse but not ad hominem attacks. It’s really a good thing for the level of discourse in a sub.
Fair enough. I didn’t call the OP an idiot, but suggested that if they believe not voting will help the Palestinians they were an idiot. But I’ll refrain in the future.
We can see your comment/post history. It is clear that you are either a Russian/Chinese/North Korean/MAGA troll attempting election interference or an idiot who thinks not voting is the solution to all of America’s problems. The argument that not voting will somehow help the Palestinians is mind numbing at best and horrifying at worst. Trump will green light the total destruction on Gaza. I also failed to see anything here about Trump’s phone call preventing a ceasefire. He will pull funding from Ukraine, who also needs help in their struggle against genocide as well. Is it worth the paycheck to spread this bullshit? Or are you really that ignorant? by
@UnpopularCrow
you called me a Russian/Chinese/North Korean/MAGA troll
you labeled me just like cops like to do without having any facts that was why you were banned
you are the one playing out the narrative the elites want the one that divides citizens but bitching and lying about your actions when you are called out just like both parties do especially Trump
People are wired to look for patterns in randomness and meaning in irrationality. Something considering the irrationality of your post at the very very very very bottom of all the other posts. Leaves you significantly unqualified to really complain about this.
That said I believe that you are genuine. For all the good that means. In this day and age of generative ai. If paid opposition was ever really that widespread. It isn’t today. And while you aren’t a magat either. You’d never acknowledge just how much like them you were behaving. I genuinely believe that you’re probably a decent person as are most magats. I just wish I could believe that either group might wake up and understand how counterproductive their behavior is. Often hurting the very thing they advocate for. And start to question who that sort of behavior actually helps. Because it isn’t either one of the issues either group obsesses over.
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My comment wasn’t based on our differing opinions, but rather the OP’s post/comment history. However name calling isn’t cool and as I said in a reply a few hours back, I’ll refrain from that in the future.
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Appreciate it. I got called out for being disrespectful. I was and I will improve. That’s my goal as a human.
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The mods are not allowing discourse here.
Check the modlog for what pro-genocide centrists (there will never be another kind of centrist) consider “discourse.”
Agreed. I was in clear violation of Rule 3. The mods did the right thing as I deserved the delete.
Anyone who checks the modlog can see that you didn’t just call them an idiot.
The better alternative is to abandon the duopoly completely
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After listening to her Nuremberg rally level acceptance speech the other night, I can’t see how anyone in good conscious could cast a vote for that. They’re willing to embrace full fledged right wing authoritarianism, nationalism, imperialism, well funded police state, as long as its team blue doing it.
If someone were to read a transcript of her speech and was asked if there was Trump speaking, or if it was Harris speaking, I would stand to guess that a majority of people would default to Trump.
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They will refuse to acknowledge it, but they are just as big a victim of US propaganda as Republicans.
That’s a terrible comparison because Trump is so incoherent and long-winded. But, you’re asking random Americans, who maybe think he’s charismatic. Personally I’m voting against trunk and for Harris. The consequences will be dire if that guy wins.
It’s a convenient wedge issue because although no one disagrees, and Harris is the clear choice, people are very upset about it. That allows the topic to steer people away from reason and into raw emotion. That in turn allows the conversation to become a way to subvert the topic into a general negative sentiment that plants itself association with Harris.
It’s a good manipulation tactic, and you can observe that any dissent turns into a pithy back and forth quickly. That’s going to leave it in the conversation for good. Because we’ll get upset every time it comes up.
It’s a very cynical, awful thing to do. To take the genocide of a helpless people and only serve it when convenient as a wedge issue. But it works, so here we are, talking about them but only when people want to take pot shots at specific politicians.
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There are people who, for various reasons (some well-meaning, some nefarious), put the plight of Palestinians above all other concerns, and decry anyone who doesn’t do the same. And they think the solution is to hold the rest of the left hostage by letting Trump win if they don’t get their way (though to be fair, I think most of them live in solid blue states where they can do what they want without actually hurting the election, and I don’t see any reason why they shouldn’t do so).
But people will make choices based on their own needs. How many queer folks are going to choose to allow Trump to win for the sake of Palestinians? Some, I’ve no doubt, but enough in swing states to change the outcome? Seems doubtful.
Israel is the most complicated thing in geopolitics, perhaps ever. It’ll never be solved in a way that leaves anyone hands clean. I support the right to protest and solicit money to help civilians in need and get the message out and to lobby politicians. I think anyone in a swing state who lets this dictate their vote is shooting themselves in the foot for no possible gain. I guess it’s their vote, but it’s just as frustrating watching them as watching poor Republicans vote against their own interests every election.
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What pressure is even possible after the election? There is only one legal way to put pressure on a politician, and that is with your vote. If you vote for them despite everything, simply because they’re the lesser evil, how do you expect to put pressure on them after? They’ll do what they always do, which is whatever the owner class tells them to do, up until a few months before the next election. Then it’s not about what they have or have not done in the past four years, it’s about defeating the Other Guy. Again.
For the record, I agree with you. There’s no good choice here. And I’ll be voting for Harris come November, though I don’t see it as a vote for Harris particularly, just a vote for the Democratic Party, to reward them for actually listening to
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Very well written.
I think what has a lot of people angry isn’t just the genocide though. It’s how the US can’t seem to get a handle on Israel. They exist and continue to exist because of the US. Yet they act like the spoiled child who knows they’ll never get in trouble no matter what they do. People want to see their leader actually get a handle on things there.
It’s how the US can’t seem to get a handle on Israel.
That’s because Netanyahu has a handle on the US.
Through AIPAC, yes. It just goes to show how susceptible to lobbying the US. This embarrasses them on the world stage in turn. As they’re seen as not being able to keep their attack dog in check.
They seem to have brought us to heel pretty effectively.
not sure you fully understand the whole history and entirety of this situation
This is the state of lemmy’s political threads.
A long nuanced answer explaining historical context and the complexity of the situation.
While you and other commenter give petulant 1 sentence responses like “hur dur they don’t know shit about fuck”. Im surprised you didn’t call him blue maga.
Not once have I ever heard from any account spouting nonsense like that who they intend to vote for especially at any other level of gov who would accomplish their goals and how.not once do I hear about a way forward from this weird ass shill accounts constantly shitting on the left instead of actually describing the concrete steps to achieve your goals that others could take. You know beyond shitting on liberals.
Maybe it’s a sign of moderation that these threads are nothing but accounts like yours desperately shutting down conversation and the possibility of good political discussion. It’s quite impressive how frankly you guys keep shutting on discourse every where to the point of any serious discussion of policy is drowned out by accounts like yours and comments like this.
I fully expect to get 4-5 responses calling me made up names like “blue maga” instead of presenting their take, specific candidates, pieces of legislation etc. because that’s where lemmy is at this point.
They think everything started on October 7, 2023…
They sure typed a lot of words to show that they don’t know shit about fuck
Voting is transactional. It is a tool. If you’re voting without demands is just weird. These politicians are not your friends or family. There is no need for the weird parasocial element to it.
I stand with the protesters. The same thing happened to activists for police reform. They went through every channel and protested just to be used as a set piece and watch the Biden admin increase police funding, and didn’t do much of anything. Liberals always disapprove of any form of accountability or protest. You will never please them unless you’re mindlessly Blue No Matter Who.
Voting is transactional. It is a tool. If you’re voting without demands is just weird. These politicians are not your friends or family. There is no need for the weird parasocial element to it.
Absolutely. But voting is also strategic. I’m not seeing any sense of strategy behind the actions of the protesters now, as other commenters have pointed out. I stand with their goal. But until someone coherently explains how their actions lead to less harm in Gaza I’m not going to support said actions.
people protesting is supposed to lead to our leaders listening and changing course
women’s suffrage
war protests in the 60s
protests to end segregation and demand better rights
list goes on and on
both parties now though have gotten to where they instantly demonize protesters demanding better
for example, pushing out tons of propaganda to the US citizens that enforces division and separation
I don’t think it’s demonization to say “your protests are counterproductive to your cause given the current electoral reality”.
Paraphrasing the other commenter, politicians are tools. So are political parties. The Democratic party is the best tool we have right now to preventing the GOP from backsliding not only with Gaza but with a slew of other progressive priorities. I don’t see a lot of these protesters being able to recognize that, and it speaks in their strategy.
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And I’ll never vote Democrat or Republican until one of them actually makes the change.
That’s fine, I’m not interested in changing your mind. To everyone else, Socialist’s point here is silly. There is no mechanism for obtaining significant legislative power by voting 3rd party in a FPTP system. It might feel good and you can then write a wall of text about how awesome and moral you are, but you can only affect this election in one of two ways by voting for a specific candidate. You are either benefiting the 1st or 2nd place candidate no matter what you do. This is a mathematical fact when dealing with a FPTP system, like ours. I strongly support changing more elections to a RCV (or STAR) style system which would completely change the calculus here, but only one party has even come close to supporting those changes on a wide scale (guess which one).
This fact alone negates everything 3rd party people claim. It’s been pointed out so many times on Lemmy it should make you question why they continue to push this stuff while claiming they want the exact change they are knowingly fighting against. The path forward and the power needed to pass real progressive change is through the Democratic party, not against it. I’m not giving up the largest tool we have to stop the GOP because you would rather throw a temper tantrum. If someone has a better strategy than “well if everyone just voted for a 3rd party!” I’m all ears, but I’m not holding my breath.
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Real change requires challenging the status quo, not just reinforcing it.
Explain, in detail, how voting 3rd party leads to positive change in this general election for President of the United States. Tell me how “challenging the status quo” here is an effective use of resources and risk when swing states are being declined by 10s of thousands of votes? There’s no mechanism for the change you’re suggesting will come from voting 3rd party this election.
All you can do is write a wall about how bad the Democrats are, because that’s the only message you care about spreading, and why I don’t find engaging with you to be worth my time typically. Have a nice Sunday, I’m done with this one!
ETA: Everyone notice below, they just repeat the same exact talking points over and over. They will never backup any of the claims they are making. It’s all fluff.
I don’t think they have the time as each day more of their family and loved ones are being erased from existence. They’re protesting nicely and mostly respectfully considering things and it still isn’t good enough. The only resources they have is protests and the uncommitted movement. Outside of money there isn’t any other ways to get people in power to keep their word.
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These people think haggling starts with a guarantee to buy the product. They get ripped off, then go back for more
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not just about the genocide both parties are okay with but if they are this willing to arm that kind of people what would they do against their own citizens just to order
that is what people are worried over and protesting about and have been for well over a century
another concern is the propaganda on both sides
the Democrats have everyone thinking that anyone is in dissent who disagrees with the Democrat Platform is either a Republican or a Russian Troll
and the Republicans are trying to incite hate against certain groups of people
Nazi Germany started in much this same fashion which again is why people have been sounding the alarm to us the citizens and begging for us to listen only to be labeled some uppity minority or labeled as a Trump supporter or labeled as a paid Russian troll
They literally brought the parents of one of the hostages on stage at the DNC. This take is bullshit.
TruthOut - News Source Context (Click to view Full Report)
Information for TruthOut:
MBFC: Left - Credibility: Medium - Factual Reporting: Mixed - United States of America
Wikipedia about this sourceSearch topics on Ground.News
https://truthout.org/articles/democrats-tuned-out-gaza-protests-at-the-dnc-history-wont-forget/
OP, did you even follow or watch any coverage? This article is a flat out lie. Palestine was brought up by several outlets in one on one interviews. There were some mention in some of the big speeches. Democratic lawmakers were having open discussion about Palestine at the DNC amongst themselves. But here we are again crying because “I didn’t see or hear about it so I and those like me were ignored”. SMH.
Paragraph breaks, bro
Send the weapons intended for Israeli to Ukraine.
