Do you like not read the news ever?
because when it is done against white people, fear mongering works better in western countries. also lobbies
“Erm akshurally, did those civilians condemn Hummus” ☝️🤓
Because the entire western world seemingly has to tip toe around Israel and let them get away with whatever they want because of some collective shame and empathy Europe and America still feel for something that happened before most people in Israel today were ever born…
The holocaust was bad…yeah. But the fact that that tragedy somehow gives the state of Israel an unlimited pass in perpetuity to be assholes is just wrong.
I beg to differ. Channel 4 News is one of the media outlets that is more critical of Israel then any other media I know of while still beeing focused on facts. I can only recommend it though if you are prepared to see dead bodies and utterly despaired people who just lost family members.
Replace the Israeli flag on top with an American flag and t this is more accurate. Americans moralizing about invasions and unjust wars lol
This morning I could hardly find a headline to confirm Israel invaded Lebanon. Everything was about how scary Iran is.
What the fucking fuckery fuck media? How is Iran’s response to Israel’s invasion more important than Israel invading? I shouldn’t have to dig for 20 minutes to confirm something like that.
I saw plenty of headlines about the invasion of Lebanon. It just happened first, so the newer headlines would be about the thing that just happened
These things happened hours apart. And many of the stubs behind the Iran headlines made no mention of why they would fire missiles at Israel. After today I won’t be surprised when we start getting people in here who think Iran fired for no reason and Israel hasn’t invaded Lebanon. It was an absolute failure of news media.
I’m not defending the media by any stretch, just that both events got some coverage.
Yeah I’m just mad because they know the timing matters. They know the words they use matter. We’ve heard them talk about this exact kind of failing in the Iraq war and covering Trump. And now we’re right back there again, breathlessly repeating the administration and their ally. Calling it a “limited ground operation”. They know that first impression matters and there’s a whole group of people who now think Israel got rocketed for terrorist hunting.
It’s called moving the goalposts. You called out their Bs claim, so they just threw out another one.
Anyone can go and listen to npr up first. The title for yesterday includes “Israel escalates in Lebanon” and then today they point to Israel vowing repercussions for Iran. In the podcast itself, they talk about how this was almost certainly retaliation for the killing for the Hezbollah leader.
This whole idea that the whole of western media is ignoring what Israel is typical of the false Bs pushed by the op.
So it’s an “escalation” and retaliation for something else entirely.
You realize this fits the exact outline I’ve laid out? Anything to avoid pointing out Israel has invaded the sovereign territory of another country.
And no. I haven’t moved any goalposts.
You realize this fits the exact outline I’ve laid out?
Your main claims were the all of the headlines “about how scary Iran is” (the fact that it was a headline about Israel escalating and Israel vowing repercussions) and “many of the stubs behind the Iran headlines made no mention of why they would fire missiles at Israel” (and the short story in NPR was about why they were retaliating). It directly contradicts it, using one of the most popular and prominent US news organizations.
And no. I haven’t moved any goalposts.
Your original argument was that there were no headlines, which the other poster challenged. . .you then went not to say that the stories didn’t give information about why they retaliated. It’s absolutely a clear case of moving the goal posts.
Attempting to gaslighting me won’t work, sorry. We’ve had too many interactions before for me not to be on the lookout for disingenuous positions.
It’s not gaslighting, it’s two people talking about the news environment they experienced yesterday morning. You’re the one trying to make it awkward and accusing people of operating in bad faith. I know what I saw and you’re not going to bully me into having seen what you say was there.
Hey, how dare you oppose my blatant false pretense with facts that are verifiable!
-Ozma before he downvoted you
No invasion from any media I saw.
Just an incursion
Sounds like something an antisemite would say! Why do you hate jews instead of the barbarian brown people, antisemite?
/s
“waaa the consequences of my actions!”
Israel and Iran going for a real war, would make the currently bad situation even worse. However it does come with the advantage that both countries might get rid of their shitty leaders.
I don’t think that’s true. Because Biden won’t be able to resist. We’ll have US troops on the ground and he’ll still be saying Hamas is blocking the peace process.
Israel and Iran going for a real war, would make the currently bad situation even worse.
For who? It’ll create more bad situations, but the currently bad situation in Palestine will get better, if anything. I know everyone is afraid of an all out war in the Middle East but in the long term it’s one possible way to collapse the status quo and make way for a more sustainable future for the region. War is bad, but it’s not worse than a warmonger getting to steamroll everyone else and Israel needs to regain the fear of God (and their neighbors) before there’s ever a chance for peace. Egypt and Syria proved it in opposite directions in 1973.
Edit: A weaker Iran would also help countries like Lebanon and Iran gain some real independence (and turn the tide against Assad); they’re definitely not sinless here.
There are anti war protests in Israel against Netanyahu since Hamas attack on the October 7th. As soon as the fighting ends an new election will be called and Netanyahu is probably going to loose that one. That would mean a more moderate government for Israel and the chance for a deal with the PLO. However a war with Iran delays this and we know what is going on in Palestine right now.
A weaker Iran might help, but the way of getting rid of Iran as a problem is a revolution within Iran. I doubt a war against Israel would help with that.
There are anti war protests in Israel against Netanyahu since Hamas attack on the October 7th.
Yes, but not for the reasons you think. The overwhelming majority of Israelis have absolutely no issue with the violence being inflicted upon Palestinians (I can link a source). The right wing keeps growing in Israel, and was even before the war. The protests are happening because even as a genocidal fascist Netanyahu is failing in the Israeli goal of destroying Hamas’s ability to wage war (surprise surprise) and bringing the hostages home (more surprise). The government that comes after this won’t have Likud, but it’ll still be a far right one. Settlements will keep getting built, we’ll still have people like “I consider my life’s mission to be preventing the creation of a Palestinian state” Smotrich, Gazans will still be forced to live in an open air concentration camp, etc etc. A deal with the PLO is fucking impossible, both because Israel won’t get a more moderate government and because the PLO is dead. Mahmoud Abbas is a corrupt Israeli puppet and everyone knows it; even Biden admits the PLO will need to be reformed before they can be trusted to run anything.
TL;DR: Even after the next election, don’t expect any good faith peace action from Israel. It won’t happen; we’ve seen this movie before.
A weaker Iran might help, but the way of getting rid of Iran as a problem is a revolution within Iran. I doubt a war against Israel would help with that.
I mean if they’re weakened by the war they won’t be able to give as much Hezbollah and Syria weapons. That has to count for something.
Exactly, can’t have and lose a new election if the warring never ends.
Are they able to delay elections based on the status of their military engagements? That’s seems like a big problem with their democracy…
No elections are scheduled to be held in October 2026, but the coaltion is very likely going to break as soon as the war ends.
I’ll take one shitty liberal democracy before I take five shitty far-right religious dictatorships.
A rabidly racist Appartheid State founded on 19th century white colonialist values which it has preserved and even strengthened ever since isn’t a Liberal Democracy, quite the contrary.
Okay take it up with political science. I didn’t invent the terms.
This has to be the best description of Israel I’ve ever seen. Seriously kudos.
Israel isn’t a “liberal democracy”, shitty or not. It’s a fascist apartheid state. Please wake the fuck up.
Apartheid. Give me a break.
I remember apartheid. The minority race didn’t let the majority race vote, citizens of the same country. That was what turned the world against South Africa, made Apartheid a crime against humanity.
Israel is an apartheid state because they don’t let people from terra nullius vote in their elections? Okay buddy.
also the others wouldn’t have been dictatorships if the west didn’t constantly fuck with their shit, create instability and power vacuums.
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Uh… You do realize Israel is an Apartheid state committing genocide right now right? That’s like comparing 19th century America to the Ottoman empire, like yeah of course you’re going to prefer the former if you’re not Black or Native American.
Shitty liberal democracy isnt a strong enough indictment of what is going on in Israel right now. Theyre well on their way to being another far right dictatorship.
They will have another election soon and can popularly reverse course, right?
I would say that, as people go, as the long arc of history bends slowly toward truth and justice, as human rights are hard won and hard kept, Israel is a diamond in the rough. I’m reminded of the words of Marquis de Lafayette, a rich French kid who joined the military at age 13, on the eve of the American Revolutionary War, which he volunteered to come over and fight, when he said “the good fortune of America is closely tied to the good fortune of all humanity.”
At that time, obviously America still had a thriving slave trade; it wasn’t about what America was right then, but what the idea of it could be, what the ideals of representative democracy could do for human kind.
Realize how crazy of an idea it is, how astonishing it is that in any place in any time, it came to be that there were no kings and the people chose their leaders? Prior to that, the law was literally “the king can do no wrong.”
To even break free of the mental shackles of that kind of dark-ages governing took modern mankind hundreds and hundreds of years, spark to flame, and has been widely regarded as a great idea, having secured real civil and human rights to billions of people. How I see it anyway.
They will have another election soon and can popularly reverse course, right?
In this particular war? Hopefully. There’s a good chance they’ll just get someone more competent to lead it, but I won’t deny that there’s also a significant possibility they’ll call off the whole thing out, which has been disastrous for Israel. But, I don’t see any significant social current calling for peace with Palestine in Israel. Israelis have been feeling many things since the start of the war, but remorse towards their treatment of Palestinians before and after the war is not one of them. So… yeah, not getting my hopes up.
I don’t think innocent people deserve to die just because they happen to not live in a liberal democracy. It’s not like it’s their choice, anyway, but even people who support their country’s regime don’t deserve to be killed for it.
Nobody thinks innocent people deserve to die, that’s what innocent means. Don’t have to deserve it to be killed incidentally, which is inevitable in war, and yet war can still be just.
As an aside, these are not distant, national, state-actor regimes. They are hyper-local partisans, non-state actors who are classified by most of the western world as terrorist organizations, doing things that most of the western world, including the ICJ, considers to be criminal: shooting 1,000 rockets a month as Israeli civilians.
Hate agreeing with a troll, but here we are stomping through a field of broken clocks.
Ozma is anything but a troll. They’re highly consistent in their political beliefs, and generally knows the topics they post about. Not everyone you disagree with is a troll or a foreign agent.
Thank you
Who said anything about foreign agents? But you do seem to have a sense of my objections to their agenda. Anyone who posts so prolifically will at any rate have thick enough skin to tolerate being misunderstood.
Gurrrll I’ve been through the 2016 election Twitter wars and 11 years on Reddit. Nothing phases me anymore. I’m numb.
What part of any of those things would stop somebody from being a troll?
Uh… A troll is someone who goes on the internet to piss off people and farm downvotes. Not people you generally expect knowledge and consistency from.
You’ve just stated two perpendicular statements. Is hexbear now not full of tankie trolls? They’re certainly consistent.
I mean it’s full of tankies, but yeah they’re not really trolls either. They’re just stupid.
They consistently piss me off and farm my downvotes, so uh
Nono, he made his point in a condescending way, he’s won the argument
Small corrections: Iran launched missiles from their home soil; those weren’t airstrikes. Unfortunately Israel’s air force is unparalleled in the Middle East.
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