greetings americans, it an honest question.
Outside of america i constantly see, especially recently as your elections are coming up that…well, it looks like a clownshow?
Your recent two contenders where a hugely dept orange clown who can barely keep a coherent thought advertising a product in the whitehows, who had to have his name constantly mention when being talked to or he will be disinterested.
The other one was a senile old fossil who couldnt even say a single sentence without his dementia kicking in.
Now you have trump again as a runner up and he seems so openly incompetently corrupt its almost funny, than we have the senile man who (to my extremely limited knowledge) got replaced by this kamala woman because he was too old, said woman seems to be at least present in mind and appears to see trump as what he really is, a manchild (the famous clip of her basically laguhing at him)
Like, are outside views are just so vehemently skewed by news, people and the like? Or am i just grossly misinformed?
America responds well to showmenship. Its kind of our core problem.
You summed it up correctly. The thing is the presidential race used to be a horse show, but that format was somehow easily hijacked by a rodeo clown.
No, that’s fairly accurate. It’s a clown show.
90% of Americans are no better informed than you are on how realistic of a portrayal it is. In fact, I’ve met many people who are proud of how willfully ignorant they are of politics.
I wonder if the issue here is you don’t appreciate how stupid your own proletariat is (i.e., as stupid and vulnerable as the American populis, but not exposed to the same intense propaganda). I think humans everywhere are surprisingly gullible and illogical.
There are idiots in every country. They are roughly the same percentage of the population everywhere.
The difference is in America the idiots are in charge of everything. Intelligence is elitism which is anti-American.
Yeah it’s that terrible, but look at the rest of the world. Putin enjoys a lot of support from the same people he’s sending to die, Modi in India wins elections by a large margin on a platform of basically “Fuck Sikhs and Muslims”. Add China and basically most of humanity lives under someone who is blatantly racist, corrupt, generally horrible, or a combination thereof. And Western Europe doesn’t have a leg to stand on either, the UK ignored dire warnings and voted for Brexit without even understanding what it is.
Humans don’t believe what’s objectively correct, they believe what they want to believe. This makes feeding people what they want to hear a very successful strategy, and one that psychopaths have an advantage in pursuing.
it is as batshit as it appears.
But for us at least, it is quite sinister as well, since Trump it quite literally attempting to instill himself as a dictator to avoid prison, and this is being facilitated by white nationalists, religious zealots, tech billionaires, and an easily decieved under-educated populace that are acting against their own interests.
this election is definitely moving “fund public schools” up on my priority list of things I care about. It’s now barely second to Climate Change quite possibly the top thing, because these idiots vote and we need the votes to deal with climate change.
Its number one with me right now. The future of the climate effort hinges on this election. Harris still sucks in that regard, but she is also the better case scenario to a staggering degree.
20+ years ago, George Carlin discussed public education.
“Just think of the average american voter. These are some dumb motherfuckers right here. Some dumb motherfuckers. And as dumb as the average one is…HALF OF THEM ARE EVEN DUMBER THAN THAT!!! Some dumb mother fuckers in this country. Some dumb mother fuckers…”
And in case you were hoping he had a positive ending to that set, he didn’t. His overall point was that our government is not being held back by the voters. There is no secret set of competent politicians who could just fix things if they got voted in. This is what we voted in, because this was whats available. Don’t look for it to get better. This is what our election system produces from the pool of candidates it has available.
Garbage in, garbage out. It’s just that simple.
So, while I DO agree that a HARD focus needs to be placed on education, it’s not going to help the voting process. It’s not a issue of dumb voters voting for dumb people. It’s an issue of trash candidates being our only options…and at this point, it’s getting to a point of intentional facism.
Like I said. Trash in, trash out.
I disagree.
It’s not that public education makes people progressive, though.
It’s that there’s now tons of poorly educated people who completely lack critical thinking skills.
You can see that in the resurgence of conspiracy theories like Flat Earth, and some of the antivax theories. (Microchips that can’t be found?)
Conservatives believe the shit people tell them because they’re too stupid to be critical of it. Like when trump tells them immigrants are eating pets, or that a wall is going to solve all the immigration problems; or that the economy some how suffers and it’s all their fault.
They’re uncritical and unable to reason out how self-evident his lies are.
We need that back. It won’t solve our problems, no. But if we’re going to solve them, we need people that are capable of discourse beyond macros.
I love Carlin, but he was an awful defeatest, any sliver of hope beaten right out of him, which he admits himself.
Education is, genuinely, the prime issue. Where I agree with Carlin is that better education can’t fix our system, because the system itself is fundamentally broken. It’d be better with smarter people, but ultimately would still be corporate captured and self-serving.
What a highly educated populace could mean is a rejection of the current system entirely, in favor of building a new one in its shell cooperatively, with horizontal, decentralized power and the wholesale rejection of profit-motive being the prime focus.
I suspect Carlin would assume humanity is incapable of that, but then again he probably wasn’t super familiar with how that actually happened in the Spanish Civil War.
If we manage to pull it off, Carlin would’ve been happy for once, begrudgingly :p
A better education will, at least partially, solve the problem… in the long run, of course… but the long run is like 20, 30 years from now. Things might get a lot worse by then and beyond fixing.
Things perpetuate and there is no fixing this. The real issue is capitalism and money. You can’t have an incentive to care about the people and how they are raised and educated if the only true incentive in this system is money. There is money in education, of course, but there is so much more from taking advantage of stupid people, regardless who does it (big tech, politicians, fast food chains…).
You should put mental healthcare right up there too. The sheer craziness of it all is only possible because the lunatics have taken over the asylum.
I don’t know how yu do this when so much school funding is local. I’ve always lived in areas that valued education agiin and we’re willing to pay for it. However no matter how much my taxes increase, it won’t help those kids in places with less money or not willing to invest in it.
It’s a much bigger ask to turn school funding into a national thing.
In Vermont, they passed legislation that distributed school funding equally across the entire state, so that impoverished areas would have just as good of an education as the wealthy ones. People bitched about their taxes going up, but otherwise have been no downsides.
Education can only get so far with inherently dumb people.
A teacher once told me “You can fix dumb. You can’t fix stupid.”
Funny enough, they’re a diehard Trump Supporter.
There’s a difference between ignorant and stupid.
Ignorant is the lack of knowledge.
Stupid is the lack of ability to apply knowledge.
Generally speaking, most people are just uneducated. Thus, that is fixable. And you can even get a lot out of mentally challenged people if you work with them a lot.
I mean, they’re putting their ballot where their mouth is at least.
Stop making me sad with facts and the truth!
Don’t worry, he’s just foolin’! Everything is great!
What I find hilarious about that scene is, the writters wanted to give her a drug problem. With actual hard drugs. Which for her acting would have made sense if she had been crashing off the drugs.
Then the network said it wasn’t ok with that. So the writting stayed the same, the scene stayed the same, except kt was caffene she was crashing from. Which, given the over the top acting, makes no sense.
So now she just comes off as insane.
I never knew that. That’s really funny. Elizabeth Berkley just couldn’t catch a break.
that actually sounds quite a lot worse
It’s rather distressing, to put it mildly.
The really interesting thing about Harris is so much of her support comes from people who hate Trump and want to stop him at all costs. There’s this large contingent of voters who have never voted for a candidate they like, they’ve only ever voted strategically to stop the candidate they hate. “Democracy”
Yup, the two parties are pretty much right wing and right wing lite
Once they welcomed people like Chenay with open arms there is no lite remaining. They are firmly right wing.
Hate is a path to the dark side
Absolutely it’s a clownshow.
If you ask me, the whole point of it is to get everyone to sort themselves into one of two horrific camps, where they’ll feel like any criticism of the people in power is an attack on them for voting for them - or, if they don’t vote, then they generally disengage from politics entirely. It’s probably the most effective system of propaganda ever designed, because you don’t even need to tell people that horrible people are on their side, they’ll happily convince themselves of it all on their own. It’s basically a race to the bottom where one side being dogshit allows the other side to be dogshit because there’s no alternative, and of course every politician wants to be as dogshit as they can get away with because that’s how you win favor with the corporate donors, who have no practical limit on how much money they can spend to influence the outcome.
There’s also this level of spectacle in our elections that’s above and beyond anywhere else in the world, we treat it like a reality show, and our debates are complete jokes where nothing substantive is ever discussed. We have absurdly long election cycles and entire industries around milking them for entertainment. It’s unlikely that we will ever even begin moving in the right direction in the foreseeable future, because the brainworms run so deep.
The worst part is when the spectacle becomes so eye-catching that people from other countries get drawn into it and start thinking in terms of our politics and what we define as normal or reasonable. Americans rarely learn from non-American perspectives and we have corporate influence constantly pushing in the direction of maximizing short term profits over all other priorities, and so our country is unable to understand or adapt to the changing conditions of the modern world, which is why we are in decline.
Look at us only as a cautionary tale of what not to do.
The shorter version is: if the reds are busy fighting with the blues, then the capitalists can keep looting us without restriction
Nailed it.
Both parties are heavily funded by the 0.01%, and that’s neither a lie nor a coincidence.
i certainly wont draw anything from america, cant say for the rest of europe, or my own country
No, we’re seeing the same thing on the inside too. The fact that Trump actually has another chance in hell, or that he likely would’ve beat Biden, is a sign of how far gone this country already is. Do people not remember the absolute shitshow that was Trump’s 1st term?
Weekly, sometimes daily, WTF moments where I was just wondering where any of the adults were. Constant, blatant corruption and incompetence on full display. And we had to hear everything he fucking said over and over because everybody had to repeat the same news over and over again.
It’s been relatively good during Biden’s tenure, I would hear/read about him about as much as a normal president. Like, the president is the president, but I don’t want to hear everything going on with the president unless it’s important. So for us to go from that absolute shit show to relative peace (as peaceful as all this can be considered), I don’t understand how anybody would want to go back.
If Trump wins, all these idiots that voted for him because “thuh conomee was better” are going to act all shocked when he actually does all the really insane stuff he’s promising to do and tried to do in his first term but the handful of rational Republicans around him stopped him from doing.
I saw interviews with voters recently that basically showed people don’t believe he’ll do all the crazy stuff he’s promising, that it’s just a negotiation tactic or to “keep the base onboard” or to “generate attention.”
When things really go to shit, I guarantee the people that voted for him will take no responsibility for it.
deleted by creator
Why would you delete that true statement?
is this kamala also at least half as decent as she appears?
I’ve warmed up to her and think she’ll make a good president, but I honestly haven’t liked Kamala for the past 4 or so years. I had actually hoped she would’ve disappeared off the face of the earth when she lost the democratic primaries, then Biden picked her up as VP and she’s been one of the most inconsequential VPs in modern US history. Considering how important/influential the VP has been since Dick Cheney seemingly redefined the role, Harris just hasn’t brought much, which is in keeping with how the role has been traditionally seen. I dreaded her stepping up for president, but she seems to have exceeded my expectations and I’ve come around to her.
As for Harris’ qualifications/positions, they seem like average middle of the road Democrat positions, nothing too exciting, but it would be nice to get a younger face in there who had some understanding of some modern technology.
She’s the only candidate on the ballot who is actively presiding over a genocide. That should be disqualifying, but I guess some people define decency differently.
I’ve seen the occasional post here on lemmy making this point. I don’t see anything factually wrong in saying she’d likely keep status quo or even make it worse. But when I see this said the one thing that I always wonder is never addressed:
How would the outcome be better if you voted against her?
Like, I have to imagine that someone making this argument thinks Trump would improve the situation. Because if that isn’t the case, then this is not a decision I’m making at the voting booth, so saying she’d continue genocide as a reason to vote against her falls flat (and, if you’re wondering, is why people are quick to downvote this argument). Is the hope that Trump will see the artillery shells sent to isreal as “librul policy” and axe it on that basis? Or that he’ll do such a bad job that he’ll get assassinated/arrested/overthrown? Something else entirely?
Enlighten me, because I can’t envision Trump making anything better.
saying she’d continue genocide as a reason to vote against her falls flat …
Who’s saying that? It’s not about making the situation better or worse at this point. Neither candidate wants the genocide to stop and it’s debatable that it could be worsened. However, Harris is guilty of actively and materially supporting this genocide, which is more damning and disqualifying than any of allegations against Trump. Apart from that, losing the election is the closest that Harris and her party will get to actually being held accountable. Maybe this kind of feedback will get the Democrats to change their strategy. Maybe not. At least I won’t be cosigning genocide.
More damning? I would think trying to overthrow the government and trying to install himself as a dictator would be just as bad.
What an incredibly deranged response. Over nine hundred families have officially been exterminated in Gaza. Realistic estimates put the death toll there over the past year well above 100,000. How many people were actually killed on January 6th?
Worse
Oh fun, please explain how she’s presiding over the genocide when she’s not the president?
Biden reiterated in his ONLY press conference that she has been in agreement with every policy decision. She has repeatedly said she wouldn’t change a thing. And that $5m in AIPAC money comes with strings attached.
Apart from trying to sell the genocide every chance she gets, Harris is part of Biden’s cabinet. Ostensibly, she’s leading the team that’s making the genocide happen. Or are you implying that Harris has had a do-nothing job for the past three years? Not exactly a shining qualification for the presidency, but I suppose that would make her a little less complicit to genocide if it were true.
Do you understand the difference between president and vice president? She’s also not on the cabinet. That’s for cabinet members. My point is she’s not presiding over anything. Biden is in charge. And your claim moments seem to be repeating propaganda nonsense.
She’s also not on the cabinet.
If you’re going to damn your soul by endorsing an ongoing genocide, at least get some basic facts right. The vice president serves on the cabinet by statute.
Ask not for whom the right-wing propaganda bell tolls. It tolls for thee.
Oh, only right-wing. When you want to say something cool-looking, but don’t have the courage to be honest.
It’s all of propaganda, but even that’s not completely true.
What’s true is that humans are fucking apes. There’s no victory over that.
There’s no political good.
The US only have right wing parties. Neolib dems and fascist Repubs are both right wing parties.
Doesn’t have anything to do with what I said.
I said that all propaganda is problematic, not only that of visible political parties, and not only right-wing one.
Furthermore I said that the problem is that humans are, I repeat, fucking apes.
And you writing something irrelevant and some anonymous idiots downvoting me illustrate this very well, because only fucking apes would take this as an attack on their particular crowd of apes, and ignore the actual meaning.
Okay bye!
Often I think it’s because of big psyops against America.
It’s important to realize that in most democracies this isn’t a bug, it’s a feature of the system. The founders of these systems wanted to ensure that major decisions were deliberated, not rushed into, and that there wasn’t a lot of room for an executive power to make snap choices that would determine the future of the nation.
Biden isn’t quite as bad as the soundbites make him seem, but he is slowing down (physically and mentally) in his old age and was just generally an extremely uninspiring candidate. Trump, if anything is worse than you portray. He’s way more senile than Biden, in addition to the blatant corruption, rulebreaking, childishness, and being horrifically and openly racist and sexist. He has literally quoted Hitler! No decent and reasonable person who is paying the slightest attention to what he says and does would think he is remotely qualified for any position of authority. The fact that he is polling roughly evenly with an extremely qualified and intelligent person like Kamala Harris is indeed an absolute clownshow.
The education system in the US is screwed beyond oblivion, that’s why this is happening.
And it’s not just the US. I live in the Balkans and things are… well, very bad to be honest. We have the lowest average IQ in Europe.
The problem is, stupid people benefit both sides, left and right. They’re easy to control, as voters. No one wants voters which can think critically.
Democracy is flawed IMO. There is no fixing this. People do rule, but at what cost. There are alternatives, but, let’s face it, none of that will be implemented, at least not in our lifetimes.
