I stayed at an Airbnb recently And I was curious what the actual value of it was so I looked it up on Zillow. Sold in 2015 for 350k, sold again in 2022 for $750k, now listed for sale 1.2 million. It’s a cabin in North Carolina, literally nothing special. I remember back before 2020 there was tons of mountain and cabins and homes and stuff like that anywhere from 2:50 to 500K. Now you won’t find a single one less than 800k…
Regular homes are just as bad. I’m seeing homes in my area that sold for around $200 to 300K in 2019, now they are 500k and above. I don’t understand how this makes any sense? Salaries were not doubled, but somehow the price of all homes are now twice as much. Is this some sort of cost fixing scheme by the real estate industry to just drive up the price of homes and double them or something? Because it doesn’t really make sense to me I guess.
AirBnBs are one reason. My wife’s home town is trying to pass a law regarding short term rentals because close to half of the houses in town are airbnbs. A developer started to build a new housing development specifically to be bnbs.
Another reason is corporations are buying property as investments.
Also private investors from around the world are buying US property. Americans think of their homes as wealth building investments and it turns out that they are not the only ones thinking that. Housing markets elsewhere are too regulated or volatile or stagnant but snapping up US housing has in a way created its own motivation. The more people do it, the better the returns are on doing it. It’s a bubble, in other words. However that bubble has resisted popping because historically, housing has never been priced according to its true value. These days we’re seeing prices rise on things like food and housing because shit, what are you going to do, not live and eat?
I stayed at an Airbnb …
That’s why.
What if It’s only listed as an Airbnb because they can’t sell it though? It’s been listed on the market, and it has not sold obviously. What else would you do with a home that you’re not living in and you’re actively trying to sell? That’s what’s not really making sense to me. For example say I have a vacation home in Pennsylvania or something like that. I put it on the market for the valuation that it has, 500k, hundreds of other homes just like that, no one’s buying it for months and months and months… But I’m still paying for it. What exactly is wrong with putting it on Airbnb?
Nothing is /wrong/ but without airbnb you’d probably drop the price or offer other incentives to buyers. Now that you can easily just rent it, why sell it all really. You’re making more than you were not renting it so you can just hold on until the market meets you where you want it to be instead of where it’s at. This help props up the price of real estate and decreases downward corrections in housing prices.
Nothing is /wrong/
a lot is wrong. illegal hotel chain is a shady way to privatize profits and externalize the negative effects of running a hotel.
Or maybe the valuation is bullshit? Naaaah, couldnt be…
remember, the houses you see on the market are those which did not get sold.
Housing prices are based on comparable homes sold in the area, so what are you guys talking about?
I won’t argue that speculation hasn’t caused prices to rise drastically but this is an industry-wide issue not an issue with homes that “did not get sold” because they happen to be on the market at the time you viewed the available listings. You’re implying that any home on the market is priced too high simply because it’s on the market.
Housing prices are based on comparable homes sold in the area, so what are you guys talking about?
we are talking about the fact that if you have trouble selling the house, then it is literally the market, who told you that your “market” valuation is clearly wrong.
You’re implying that any home on the market is priced too high simply because it’s on the market.
of course i am not. you should have learned what hyperbole is sometime in elementary school.
the statement is not valid for every house that is on the market for 5 minutes. it is however perfectly valid for most of what is on the market longer than w/e is the average for that market. maybe you have something truly unique and you have to wait for your customer, or maybe you have inflated sense of the value of the object you are trying to sell, be it a house or used car.
Quick, everybody down vote op for asking a question
The tribe says AirBnB bad therefore OP is bad and a group outsider for staying in one.
The tribe says AirBnB bad
the “tribe” here is literally everyone except for the people who parasite on it.
At 1.2 million, it’s overpriced. They’ve likely priced it that way because it’s now an Airbnb - “look at all the income you’ll make by buying this property!” But what really changed in the two years they owned it? Did they remodel the whole place? Possibly, but probably not enough to warrant adding $550k to the price. This house is now an investment, not a place to live.
I have noticed a particular attitude with a lot of sellers, though. They think because other sellers have been having great windfalls that they can just list for any high amount and it’ll work for them too. Those are the ones that sit, and they’re usually priced at 1m or more.
The homes flying off the shelves, so to speak, are the starter homes. You have both younger and older generations fighting for the same small affordable homes, and developers generally aren’t building as many of those.
The biggest reason that is often overlooked is wealth inequality. The rich keep accumulating wealth, and real estate is a scarce form of wealth that holds value, produces a return, and can be accumulated. It probably accelerated recently because of the large amount of money that was dumped into the system around covid; that was yet another opportunity for the wealthy to grab a bigger share of the pie.
If things keep going this way, we’re going to get into a situation where regular people don’t own houses anymore, and rent is a much larger percentage of your income.
I get roasted for this every time I mention it because I think people on sites like this generally fit in this category and feel personally attacked, but I honestly believe a large part of it is from WFH becoming more widespread during COVID. People were able to leave the large cities where their jobs were all located and could move wherever they wanted to so that competition for housing drives prices way way up. The few friends I do have all work in software development and all moved during COVID away from their offices and into houses. They all had a similar story “the realtor told me any house that’s on the market for more than 5 days (that’s crazy crazy short) has a major issue, stay away from those.”
Tie that into the expansion of investment companies buying houses with the intent of renting them forever and the NIMBYism that keeps new construction from being made because “My PrOpErTy VaLuE!” and it’s just a recipe for disaster…
I hate that I’m going to be stuck renting someone’s garage or basement and paying their mortgage in rent prices for the rest of my life…
You get roasted because it’s at least not entirely making sense. Prices in cities went up a lot as well. That’s not due to people moving away. I’m staying in my apartment that’s too big for one person because I would have to pick one half the size to at least keep my rent at the same level. And I’m one of those software dudes.
Yeah, it has more to do with huge corpos like Blackrock and Zillow buying up every piece of property they can physically get their hands on than the WFH crowd ever could drive the prices naturally. Here’s a link about How wall street put homes for rent.
Except the rapid real estate inflation started years before COVID. WFH may play a part but it’s hardly a major reason.
Yes, people from cities moving to rural towns does impact housing prices which should be a net benefit for the town as it bring in income from outside. It could be a negative when the volume of outsiders is high enough to displace long term residents, but in a vacuum people moving into an area that isn’t overpopulated already should be a good thing.
Now outsiders moving in, then buying up homes to make into BnBs, plus companies buying up homes combined is probably going to cause problems for existing residents and maybe that is what people are pushing back on. Being one part of a larger problem that wouldn’t be a problem if only their part was happening.
Yes, people from cities moving to rural towns does impact housing prices which should be a net benefit for the town as it bring in income from outside. It could be a negative when the volume of outsiders is high enough to displace long term residents, but in a vacuum people moving into an area that isn’t overpopulated already should be a good thing.
It’s absolutely a negative for those in the area. I’m literally priced out of the entirety of long Island now. There is literally nowhere I can afford that isn’t in an uninsurable flood zone and I’m too “worthless” to move. Anywhere with work for someone like me is just a shithole city so I just move from renting to renting in a worse environment. :/
TIL Long Island is a rural town.
The east end actually is considered rural, at least according to ups/postal deliveries lol
But apartments in the middle of cities are more expensive than ever
Investors.
China’s entire modern “economic miracle” is founded on housing as an investment vehicle.
You can in part blame Canadian Conservatives in BC, specifically Bill Vanderzam, Christy Clark, Gordon Campbell and Kevin Falcon; as well as federally, Brian Mulroney and Stephen Harper, for importing this behaviour and concept from Asia and its rise here. Initially in the late 1980s and early 1990s it was about attracting the elite of Hong Kong, who were afraid of what the handover of Hong Kong to the CCP would mean. (And rightly so, as it turns out.)
Vancouver BC is infamously unaffordable, and its entirely because of investors, both national and international using its real estate as a ridiculously effective investment vehicle. If you had purchased a home in the suburbs for 500k in 2006, that home would be worth well over 2 to even 3 million dollars today.
When Vancouver started capping out and hitting limits investors moved on to apply the same practices all over the continent.
The answer is always speculation investment. People are on average richer and real estate is the only trully limited economic resource as we have limited land especially in desired locations.
Seriously lookup how much of real estate is uninhabitable.
People are richer, the tech is better and everything we know about economy would indicate that real estate should be more accessible but that’s not the case because the market is manipulated.
The best part? If you invest in a stock index you’ll almost always out do real estate ownership almost anywhere in developed world. So people are hustling this stupid game while they could just sit back and watch money do money things.
I remember back before 2020 there was tons of mountain and cabins and homes and stuff like that anywhere from 2:50 to 500K. Now you won’t find a single one less than 800k…
WFH and good satellite internet were a bit of a game changer here. You could now live in a remote place and work a job with a high income.
Regular homes are just as bad. I’m seeing homes in my area that sold for around $200 to 300K in 2019, now they are 500k and above.
Supply and demand here. There aren’t enough houses being build for people (and private investors) that want to buy them. The price rises.
I don’t understand how this makes any sense? Salaries were not doubled, but somehow the price of all homes are now twice as much.
Lots to unpack with this one. First, some people’s salaries were doubled. There has been some niche sectors of industry that have seen large year over year increases in income, specifically some STEM fields. Second, housing price rises are not linear across all pricepoints. The cheaper house are going up significantly faster than more expensive homes. Why? Because there are more people shopping at the lower pricepoints. When we bought our new-to-us house a few years ago buying a house $150k more expensive than the house were were living in got us very little more house. However, buying a house $250k more expensive got a lot more house (larger, better neighborhood, more outside space, etc).
The commercial real estate market has taken a big hit since COVID and RTO is generally unpopular. In North America this has led to a shift to buying residential housing for rental or resale.
Because houses past your primary residence are not taxed enough. Houses you own should be taxed at an exponential rate. Primary residence means you live there >80pct of the year.
Is there a limit to the size of your primary residence?
One million square kilometer!
I stayed at an Airbnb
Nothing funnier than source of the problem complaining about the problem :D
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True but not the cause of this massive change in real estate values.
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Because population is increasing faster than new housing is being built. There is a supply problem and demand is in elastic. The supply problem is the result of government’s continual suppression of new construction, via permitting red tape and overeager density zoning.
I guess it’s by country basis. A lot of places have negative population growth yet the prices skyrocket. It does make me think what is the actual reason in those places
What’s an example of such a place?
Japan and EU first comes to mind
I was listening to the radio and they had said to keep up with housing demand in my area they would need to create 35,000 homes per year for 30 years. Meanwhile we get maybe 25 houses at most. In 6 years the typical rent has quadrupled.
Horrible world we live in.
Our world is somewhere in the middle of the range of possibility I’m sure
It varies by region and country but the big underlying factor is not enough new homes are being built. It’s creating an artificial scarcity which is driving up prices. Some other factors come into play depending on where you live. For example, I’ve read in America that a lot of the homes are being bought by trust funds and big corporations that can just overbid everyone. Now there are even less viable homes to sell. Here in Canada, we have a big problem where our federal government brought in a large amount of immigrants for its Temporary Foreign Worker program and its foreign student programs which created a big spike in population, especially in the major cities. The local governments are responsible for house building and didn’t do anything about accommodating a bigger population despite them knowing it was coming.
- for its* Temporary Foreign Worker program
- and its* foreign student programs
Corrected, thank you person with the best and most relevant username :).
- Land is scarce where people want to live, it’s always going to get more expensive as more people want to live there.
- Low interest rates caused large investment firms to seek higher rates by being rental owners instead of mortgage owners. This forced up rent to make returns on investment. As the realities of being a landlord are realized this might get better.
- New building nationally wasn’t keeping pace pre covid, but it was by a negligible amount. Post covid, new building is years behind where it needs to be.
- High interest rates now has effectively got people stuck in existing homes, because a new mortgage would be double the payment.
- Inflation happened, 20% of the increase since 2020 is just inflation.
- Short term rentals have devasted the residential market in popular tourist areas, forcing them to charge hotel taxes and follow those regulations is hopefully going to start correcting this.
I think you elude to it, but just to clarify…VC’s and companies have been buying homes like crazy, thus reducing an already anemic inventory.
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